EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#1822997 15-Jul-2017 18:39

MikeAqua:

1,200 miles is more than enough range for a semi.

I hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of semis in NZ work 24 hours a day, especially ones owned by bigger transport companies (that would have the money to invest in EV).

Every fleet truck that does the "Turangi 500" at night is used locally during the day.

Even one that is a local semi during the day, often does a night shift to a distribution centre and back.

Often they only come off the road for a service.

Owner/drivers are *maybe* an exception to this (if they do Auck-Welly), but not usually... during the day they hire another driver. It's the only way to make the money to pay for a truck.

Linuxluver

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#1824336 18-Jul-2017 12:42

blakamin:

MikeAqua:

1,200 miles is more than enough range for a semi.

I hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of semis in NZ work 24 hours a day, especially ones owned by bigger transport companies (that would have the money to invest in EV).

Every fleet truck that does the "Turangi 500" at night is used locally during the day.

Even one that is a local semi during the day, often does a night shift to a distribution centre and back.

Often they only come off the road for a service.

Owner/drivers are *maybe* an exception to this (if they do Auck-Welly), but not usually... during the day they hire another driver. It's the only way to make the money to pay for a truck.

They are looking at removable batteries for such use cases. You drive in, drop the current battery, bolt in a fully charged one...and drive out. 1200km more.

Another option is extremely fast charging. Some buses in Switzerland can charge in a handful of minutes at monster kw rates.....but they aren't doing long journeys and they top up after each cycle of the bus route.

The other option is hydrogen fuel cell. A trucking company (or existing petrol provider) may well have the scale to support the installation of a fueling station at the right intervals. Too expensive for cars, but maybe viable for Semi EVs generating electricity from burning hydrogen.

I suspect what will drive it is the move to automation. When trucks don't need drivers the change will happen very quickly. "Owner operators" will effectively cease to exist.

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WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1824405 18-Jul-2017 14:20

Linuxluver:

blakamin:

MikeAqua:

1,200 miles is more than enough range for a semi.

I hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of semis in NZ work 24 hours a day, especially ones owned by bigger transport companies (that would have the money to invest in EV).

Every fleet truck that does the "Turangi 500" at night is used locally during the day.

Even one that is a local semi during the day, often does a night shift to a distribution centre and back.

Often they only come off the road for a service.

Owner/drivers are *maybe* an exception to this (if they do Auck-Welly), but not usually... during the day they hire another driver. It's the only way to make the money to pay for a truck.

They are looking at removable batteries for such use cases. You drive in, drop the current battery, bolt in a fully charged one...and drive out. 1200km more.

Another option is extremely fast charging. Some buses in Switzerland can charge in a handful of minutes at monster kw rates.....but they aren't doing long journeys and they top up after each cycle of the bus route.

The other option is hydrogen fuel cell. A trucking company (or existing petrol provider) may well have the scale to support the installation of a fueling station at the right intervals. Too expensive for cars, but maybe viable for Semi EVs generating electricity from burning hydrogen.

I suspect what will drive it is the move to automation. When trucks don't need drivers the change will happen very quickly. "Owner operators" will effectively cease to exist.

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

Linuxluver

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#1824427 18-Jul-2017 14:41

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

I agree. But it's coming, ready or not.

If you're worried about social costs then you can't be a National voter. They are the only party refusing to even look at this as it is today, never mind in the future.

I'm not saying that to be political as much as I'm saying it to highlight that political choices ARE relevent to all these issues and to the impact of artificial intelligence, in particular, on human workers.

It's coming.....and it will wreck your life unless you get in front of it and tell our elected representatives how they need to respond to it on your behalf.

This is for real. The usual answer to blame the people (whose jobs were destroyed by someone else) for being too lazy to just do something else. The scope for "something else" is shrinking. Especially in NZ where entire careers in engineering and design in support of manufacturing were destroyed by the removal of tariff barriers. We'll have to get over that blame-the-victim thing soon.

A Universal Basic (why basic, anyway) Income (UBI) is being proposed as a way to handle the social and economic impact of people no longer being able work for a living in large numbers. We already do it for people over 65.

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MikeAqua

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#1824440 18-Jul-2017 14:57

blakamin:

MikeAqua:

1,200 miles is more than enough range for a semi.

I hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of semis in NZ work 24 hours a day, especially ones owned by bigger transport companies (that would have the money to invest in EV).

Hot swap battery packs.

Mike

MikeAqua

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#1824447 18-Jul-2017 15:04

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

We are so far from that technology right now .... I can't imagine an autonomous vehicle ever driving a truck from Taupo to Turangi unless sections of that road are drastically improved.

Mike

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wellygary

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#1824462 18-Jul-2017 15:16

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

As long as there are pathways for retraining and future employment I cannot see a problem with this....

It won't be an overnight shift so there will be time to adjust,

Currently jobs being obsoleted include, Bank tellers, Posties, Fast food restaurant order takers, movie ticket sellers and checkout operators.

In the recent past we have eliminated, Milk men, Telephone switchboard and toll call operators, Typesetters, Typing pools, stenographers etc,

Change is not something you can easily get in the way of...

Linuxluver

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#1824474 18-Jul-2017 15:26

wellygary:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

As long as there are pathways for retraining and future employment I cannot see a problem with this....

It won't be an overnight shift so there will be time to adjust,

Currently jobs being obsoleted include, Bank tellers, Posties, Fast food restaurant order takers, movie ticket sellers and checkout operators.

In the recent past we have eliminated, Milk men, Telephone switchboard and toll call operators, Typesetters, Typing pools, stenographers etc,

Change is not something you can easily get in the way of...

...and the people you used to phone to get authorisations on credit card purchases. Those jobs are dead....and they used to be well-paid. I id it for a couple of years in Toronto in the early 80s. The pay was 3 times the minimum wage.

That's the other trend here.....it's often the better-paid jobs that get the disappearing treatment.

Lawyers and doctors and dentists....looking at you here. Especially anything to do with surgery. A robot will be more precise and careful than any human where surgery is concerned.

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WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1824501 18-Jul-2017 15:52

Linuxluver:

wellygary:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

As long as there are pathways for retraining and future employment I cannot see a problem with this....

It won't be an overnight shift so there will be time to adjust,

Currently jobs being obsoleted include, Bank tellers, Posties, Fast food restaurant order takers, movie ticket sellers and checkout operators.

In the recent past we have eliminated, Milk men, Telephone switchboard and toll call operators, Typesetters, Typing pools, stenographers etc,

Change is not something you can easily get in the way of...

...and the people you used to phone to get authorisations on credit card purchases. Those jobs are dead....and they used to be well-paid. I id it for a couple of years in Toronto in the early 80s. The pay was 3 times the minimum wage.

That's the other trend here.....it's often the better-paid jobs that get the disappearing treatment.

Lawyers and doctors and dentists....looking at you here. Especially anything to do with surgery. A robot will be more precise and careful than any human where surgery is concerned.

What absolute rubbish.

I had minor surgery last year, and the surgeon during the procedure observed with his eyes that what was being operated on was larger than expected. He, and his surgical team took steps to solve the issue, leaving me with the better option in terms of recovery. I doubt a robot, programmed with a specific set of procedures, would be able to make those same decisions in the best interest of the patient.

UHD

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#1824520 18-Jul-2017 16:14

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Linuxluver:

wellygary:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Well, that's just swell isn't it. Let's put more people out of work. Not to mention, all those employed supporting the industry that'll be impacted as well.

The automated EV truck maybe a great thing for pollution and emission, but at what social cost?

As long as there are pathways for retraining and future employment I cannot see a problem with this....

It won't be an overnight shift so there will be time to adjust,

Currently jobs being obsoleted include, Bank tellers, Posties, Fast food restaurant order takers, movie ticket sellers and checkout operators.

In the recent past we have eliminated, Milk men, Telephone switchboard and toll call operators, Typesetters, Typing pools, stenographers etc,

Change is not something you can easily get in the way of...

...and the people you used to phone to get authorisations on credit card purchases. Those jobs are dead....and they used to be well-paid. I id it for a couple of years in Toronto in the early 80s. The pay was 3 times the minimum wage.

That's the other trend here.....it's often the better-paid jobs that get the disappearing treatment.

Lawyers and doctors and dentists....looking at you here. Especially anything to do with surgery. A robot will be more precise and careful than any human where surgery is concerned.

What absolute rubbish.

I had minor surgery last year, and the surgeon during the procedure observed with his eyes that what was being operated on was larger than expected. He, and his surgical team took steps to solve the issue, leaving me with the better option in terms of recovery. I doubt a robot, programmed with a specific set of procedures, would be able to make those same decisions in the best interest of the patient.

Cars have been driven significantly better by robots than people for a few years now. I cannot see why surgical procedures are necessarily any different.

tripper1000

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#1825048 19-Jul-2017 11:36

MikeAqua:

blakamin:

MikeAqua:

1,200 miles is more than enough range for a semi.

I hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of semis in NZ work 24 hours a day, especially ones owned by bigger transport companies (that would have the money to invest in EV).

Hot swap battery packs.

24hour operations won't be a problem. The newest generation of fuel cells look likely to supersede the ICE engine before the lithium battery does, particularly in trucks. ReFuel times and range won't be any different than at present. You refuel them with propane/methane etc, make electricity and power an electric traction motor.

You end up with a low emission fossile fuel powered vehicle that has an EV drive chain - basically a new generation of hybrid that eliminates a lot of moving parts and presently has efficiency of about 50%, which beats all current ICE's. I think the new inner-city emissions rules (overseas) will accelerate the uptake of this technology.

The fuel cell technology is already in production in static grid-tie applications of a few kw.

Hydrogen fuel cells were always an aberration to confuse the motoring public - we've never had clouds of hydrogen gas in need of a good use.

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MarkH67

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#1831700 26-Jul-2017 15:41

Review of the Bolt: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2017-chevrolet-bolt/review/?ftag=CAD13782fc&bhid=21042758824545532419883291182906

Are those going to be sold here?

ubergeeknz

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#1831701 26-Jul-2017 15:44

MarkH67:

Review of the Bolt: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2017-chevrolet-bolt/review/?ftag=CAD13782fc&bhid=21042758824545532419883291182906

Are those going to be sold here?

Anecdotally, it seems GM are causing the Bolt to fail on purpose, artificially restricting supply, etc. There's an Opel branded version called the "Ampera-e" in the Europe market. There's no RHD version yet.

Rikkitic

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#1831708 26-Jul-2017 16:05

ubergeeknz:

MarkH67:

Review of the Bolt: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2017-chevrolet-bolt/review/?ftag=CAD13782fc&bhid=21042758824545532419883291182906

Are those going to be sold here?

Anecdotally, it seems GM are causing the Bolt to fail on purpose, artificially restricting supply, etc. There's an Opel branded version called the "Ampera-e" in the Europe market. There's no RHD version yet.

I heard fantastic things about the Ampera-e the other day. Apparently it is supposed to be an exceptional car.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Linuxluver

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#1831712 26-Jul-2017 16:12

Rikkitic:

ubergeeknz:

MarkH67:

Review of the Bolt: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2017-chevrolet-bolt/review/?ftag=CAD13782fc&bhid=21042758824545532419883291182906

Are those going to be sold here?

Anecdotally, it seems GM are causing the Bolt to fail on purpose, artificially restricting supply, etc. There's an Opel branded version called the "Ampera-e" in the Europe market. There's no RHD version yet.

I heard fantastic things about the Ampera-e the other day. Apparently it is supposed to be an exceptional car.

The Bolt / Ampere-e is a great car.

GM either doesn't really want to sell it or their dealers don't. Whatever is really going on, it says a lot that 400,000 plus people are ignoring GM and waiting for the Tesla Model 3....mainly because they feel Tesla is sincere...and GM isn't.

Add to this the stories of LG Chem not being able to make enough batteries for the Hyundai IONIQ (and they also make the batteries for the Bolt)....and you have to wonder what's really going on.

Meanwhile the first Tesla Model 3 cars are delivered in 2 days and they are ramping up production as rapidly as they can to meet the demand that is out there as those 400,000 people have already deposited US$1,000 on a Model 3.

I have. Would I buy a Bolt today if they had a RHD version? Probably not. GM hasn't been advertising the Bolt and lots of people have been finding it hard to actually buy one.....meanwhile GM says they have them stockpiled. Whatever is going on it looks like a GM eco-system fail.

Yeah right....Tesla is the answer to that mystery.

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