EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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969 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2934789 27-Jun-2022 10:30

Following the post by Gavin Shoebridge reviewing the towing ability of an EV (Polestar2 DM LR) I raised the question of what effect trailer brakes would have on regenerative braking efficiency. My query is in the comments section of the YouTube video.

Having also now raised this issue on the Polestar Forum the replies are varied but probably influenced by the tendency towards safety and liability by North American residents. So, how many here have towed with their EV, what are your experiences in doing so and how have you dealt with the trailer braking issue?

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2934790 27-Jun-2022 10:35

Isnt there usually a brake bias on the caravan etc you can turn down?

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#2934792 27-Jun-2022 10:39

RobDickinson:

Isnt there usually a brake bias on the caravan etc you can turn down?

That would be the best approach IMO. I brought that point up on the Polestar Forum as elsewhere on that forum there had been mention of electronically controlled braking systems for trailers which may be a common American thing which I'm unaware of in the NZ market, but I could just be uninformed on that.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Jase2985

13457 posts

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#2934802 27-Jun-2022 11:07

RobDickinson:

Isnt there usually a brake bias on the caravan etc you can turn down?

Depends on what brake system the caravan has.

shk292

2853 posts

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#2934822 27-Jun-2022 12:07

Obraik:

If Tiwai point was taken over by a company such as Tesla they would have access to 100% renewable energy to make their vehicles/batteries and they could keep the smelter to make aluminium for the vehicles as well. We're also pretty close to Australia where they source a lot of their raw materials

Genuine question - does it take much energy to make EV batteries? I assume there's some energy input to change the state of raw materials but it seems unlikely that this is comparable to the vast energy consumption of the Aluminium refining process

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2934825 27-Jun-2022 12:17

Obraik:

If Tiwai point was taken over by a company such as Tesla they would have access to 100% renewable energy to make their vehicles/batteries and they could keep the smelter to make aluminium for the vehicles as well. We're also pretty close to Australia where they source a lot of their raw materials

If Renewable energy was such a draw for Tesla then they would not have built a factory in Texas, which has 7% renewable power, vs expanding in California which has 30% renewables

Scott3

3963 posts

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#2934827 27-Jun-2022 12:36

On assembling EV's in NZ, it is not materially different to assembling petrol / diesel car's, and we know that is not viable from past experience.

I don't think anybody wan't to go back to the days where cars were built offshore, dismantled, sent to NZ as part's, then reassembled here to reduce tax costs.

Obraik:

If Tiwai point was taken over by a company such as Tesla they would have access to 100% renewable energy to make their vehicles/batteries and they could keep the smelter to make aluminium for the vehicles as well. We're also pretty close to Australia where they source a lot of their raw materials

Not going to happen.

Rio Tinto want's to operate past the current 2024 closure date, so that site is not available yet. Aluminium prices are high at the moment (over NZD $4,000 / tonne), so unless this changes, it is likely the smelter will keep cranking. I imagine the geopolitical situation in Europe also makes keeping smelters open in other parts of the world more attractive.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/461084/rio-tinto-wants-to-keep-operating-tiwai-point-smelter-past-2024-closure-date
Unlike smelting I think energy costs are a fairly minor cost of car production. Tesla's gigafactory was designed to be primary solar powered, and net zero energy upon completion, so 100% renewable grid power isn't a huge marketing win.
Al is pritty cheap and easy to ship, so no real need for a car factory to be next to a smelter.
Grade of Al might not match what is needed (I think the NZ smelter produces high purity aviation grade stuff that may be too expensive to use for car's).
Any tesla factory is going to produce at a scale far larger than NZ's demand for what ever model that factor is tooled for. Means most parts will be shipped access oceans for the NZ factory, and the car's will get exported back again. Expensive in terms of shipping.
Bluff doesn't really have the available labour force to run a car factory.

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Dingbatt

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#2934830 27-Jun-2022 12:43

For people who think setting up vehicle manufacturing would be simple there is an excellent TV series on Duke (TVNZ) called "How to Bulid a Motorcar" on Thursday nights. Aside from one boutique sportscar manufacturer, all of the episodes I have watched have been for mass produced cars. It brings home the huge infrastructure requirements involved in car manufacture. Even if the electricity was provided for free that wouldn't be enough because of all the third party suppliers who are also involved.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

WyleECoyoteNZ

1049 posts

Uber Geek

#2934833 27-Jun-2022 12:50

shk292:
Obraik:

If Tiwai point was taken over by a company such as Tesla they would have access to 100% renewable energy to make their vehicles/batteries and they could keep the smelter to make aluminium for the vehicles as well. We're also pretty close to Australia where they source a lot of their raw materials

Genuine question - does it take much energy to make EV batteries? I assume there's some energy input to change the state of raw materials but it seems unlikely that this is comparable to the vast energy consumption of the Aluminium refining process

You might be able to find that information in the Volvo comparing the production of the XC40 Recharge EV to the XC40 equivalent.

Link below. Rory from AutoTrader also did a video summarizing the report.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my23/xc40-electric-light/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiRmtnNs8z4AhWeUWwGHTVBCFAQFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1tuf_GVdhJyh2yRyQeQIso

DS248

1691 posts

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#2934838 27-Jun-2022 12:55

Discovered this parked in front of my car on return from a morning run around Orewa estuary. Does look nice though possibly a bit overdone stylewise? (Edit. That comment related to the side view. Looks fine viewed from the rear)

No towbar 😁

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2934841 27-Jun-2022 13:02

If it cant tow my boat from Invers to bay of islands without stopping once then its not a valid form of transport... or something

afe66

3181 posts

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#2934842 27-Jun-2022 13:02

If australia couldn't make car assembly work despite grants etc and a much bigger industrial base, I seriously doubt nz can.

RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2934889 27-Jun-2022 13:12

Always surprises me Australia isnt pushing for more secondary industries, it mines pretty much all you need for battery cells, it can supply all the renewable power you want, where is the cell factory?

Obraik

2123 posts

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#2934890 27-Jun-2022 13:14

wellygary:

If Renewable energy was such a draw for Tesla then they would not have built a factory in Texas, which has 7% renewable power, vs expanding in California which has 30% renewables

In the case of Texas, the plan is to run their factory from solar on the roof of their factory and not rely on the grid.

Scott3:

Not going to happen.

Rio Tinto want's to operate past the current 2024 closure date, so that site is not available yet. Aluminium prices are high at the moment (over NZD $4,000 / tonne), so unless this changes, it is likely the smelter will keep cranking. I imagine the geopolitical situation in Europe also makes keeping smelters open in other parts of the world more attractive.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/461084/rio-tinto-wants-to-keep-operating-tiwai-point-smelter-past-2024-closure-date
Unlike smelting I think energy costs are a fairly minor cost of car production. Tesla's gigafactory was designed to be primary solar powered, and net zero energy upon completion, so 100% renewable grid power isn't a huge marketing win.
Al is pritty cheap and easy to ship, so no real need for a car factory to be next to a smelter.
Grade of Al might not match what is needed (I think the NZ smelter produces high purity aviation grade stuff that may be too expensive to use for car's).
Any tesla factory is going to produce at a scale far larger than NZ's demand for what ever model that factor is tooled for. Means most parts will be shipped access oceans for the NZ factory, and the car's will get exported back again. Expensive in terms of shipping.
Bluff doesn't really have the available labour force to run a car factory.

Depends how long everyone wants to keep bending over backwards for Rio Tinto tho 😉
The more renewable the factory the less validation there is behind the "but EVs create more emissions at the factory!" argument
It sure makes it easy when the Aluminium you need is made on site. Tesla is all about vertical integration wherever possible.
If Tesla took it over, they could make the grade that they want.
A hypothetical gigafactory in NZ would never be making cars just for New Zealand. It could serve Australia, NZ and the rest of the pacific, all of which are RHD. It may simplify things for them to have a RHD factory "close" to where a lot of RHD markets are.
I'm sure there are a lot of people that would love to get out of Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, etc for a decent paying job.

Again, my suggestion is very pie in the sky and like 1% chance of ever happening lol. However, if you look at NZ being a hub for car making rather than making cars just for itself, it's not too ludicrous

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RobDickinson

1524 posts

Uber Geek

#2934891 27-Jun-2022 13:15

Its easier fot Tesla to just buy the aluminium from Rio really

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