EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#2973943 28-Sep-2022 08:13

GV27:

Close, only half the story. We're walking backwards relative to our two other benchmark currencies, the Yen and AUD.

So even though there is big repatriation towards USD in currency markets globally, we are not making or holding ground against our other major trading pairs. We also haven't made any ground against the Pound and they are diving relative to everyone else.

Seems we have little control over what other far larger nations do globally.

The world’s major central banks are all increasing interest rates at a rapid pace, trying to stamp out inflation. More increases are planned through this month despite some critics, including the World Bank, saying it could be too much, too quickly.

Even the Bank of Japan, which is the one hold-out refusing to follow the rising interest rate trend, has had to prop up its currency for the first time since 1998.

The British currency hit record lows after what was described as a “firesale of ass ets” by investors after the new finance minister slashed tax and pushed up borrowing.

GV27

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#2973946 28-Sep-2022 08:27

tdgeek:

The world’s major central banks are all increasing interest rates at a rapid pace, trying to stamp out inflation. More increases are planned through this month despite some critics, including the World Bank, saying it could be too much, too quickly.

Even the Bank of Japan, which is the one hold-out refusing to follow the rising interest rate trend, has had to prop up its currency for the first time since 1998.

The British currency hit record lows after what was described as a “firesale of ass ets” by investors after the new finance minister slashed tax and pushed up borrowing.

This is pretty much my point though? Shrugging your shoulders and going "Nothing we can do, it's just the USD" and then copping a wave of imported inflation seems like an overly relaxed approach when other central banks are effectively at panic stations for that exact reason.

The market is starting to price in our absurd amount of private debt and the fact we can't (or won't) lift interest rates enough to get ahead of inflation, so the money goes somewhere else and we go backwards against other currencies. Guess what? More imported inflation.

In an EV-context, the car I bought is now 10% more expensive than it would have been three weeks ago. That wave of inflation is coming, but it will probably hit fuel prices too, so I'm less cut up about it.

tukapa1

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#2973982 28-Sep-2022 09:40

Dingbatt:
Even with the rebate, it is very difficult to justify purchasing a new EV on financial benefit alone. You need to have another reason to do it. It may be as simple as the ‘feel good’ factor involved in owning an EV. That can stem from environmental concern, or not being tied to imported energy sources (yes I know we are importing coal), or even just enjoying the driving experience.

If you are looking at running costs you also need to factor in servicing costs (for both), (future) road user charges and electricity costs.

If both of our existing cars weren't around the 20 year old mark then I probably wouldn't be looking at upgrading right now.

Purely on safety reasons a new car would be a lot safer than the two old things we're running at the moment.

I didn't include servicing in my costs as we're already servicing two cars, and this would replace one of them, so we will still be servicing two cars. If anything servicing should get a bit cheaper.

I think RUC are exempt until some time in 2024? I read somewhere a good mid point for RUC would be $600 year?

You're right on factoring in the electricity costs for charging. I haven't done any figures on that but thought it would be reasonably minimal with a weekly charge?

We have a 9 year old and there would be some feel good factor there doing the EV. The kids are pretty hard into environmental issues these days.

I have considered another Corolla, but hybrid, but I'm kind of wondering why bother with a half step when I could go full electric.

Pity the Atto 2/Dolphin appears to have been delayed as it was an easy decision until then....

Cheers for the feedback.

tdgeek

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#2973983 28-Sep-2022 09:41

GV27:

This is pretty much my point though? Shrugging your shoulders and going "Nothing we can do, it's just the USD" and then copping a wave of imported inflation seems like an overly relaxed approach when other central banks are effectively at panic stations for that exact reason.

The market is starting to price in our absurd amount of private debt and the fact we can't (or won't) lift interest rates enough to get ahead of inflation, so the money goes somewhere else and we go backwards against other currencies. Guess what? More imported inflation.

In an EV-context, the car I bought is now 10% more expensive than it would have been three weeks ago. That wave of inflation is coming, but it will probably hit fuel prices too, so I'm less cut up about it.

Who is Shrugging your shoulders and going "Nothing we can do, it's just the USD" ? Its the reality. When there has been a GFC we are hardly placed to implement our own measures given how small we are, so we have no choice but to ride that wave. Its little different now. In both cases we are less exposed than most, but we cannot avoid the global effects. Do we have an absurd amount of debt? Media articles by economists say we are well placed compared to our global counterparts. Some people seem to suggest that our inflation is far more local than imported, although that's clearly incorrect. I guess we could increase interest rates significantly if you feel that will resolve it and we can go back to favourable exchange rates? Sounds easy.

GV27

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#2974028 28-Sep-2022 10:23

tdgeek:

Media articles by economists say we are well placed compared to our global counterparts. Some people seem to suggest that our inflation is far more local than imported, although that's clearly incorrect. I guess we could increase interest rates significantly if you feel that will resolve it and we can go back to favourable exchange rates? Sounds easy.

The media scrutiny of RBNZ's actions has been laughable, both pre- and post-pandemic, so I wouldn't put too much stock in what local economists say or say publicly anyway. And yes, take a look at what our inflation numbers for the past few quarters are made up of - there has been a larger amount of non-tradeable inflation than people might have otherwise thought, if they'd listened to the "Oh, it's the war in Ukraine!" excuse making we've been served up.

Either way, now you're going to see real imported inflation. I'm talking from the last few weeks, not months here. It's not priced into local asking prices or fuel costs or food prices yet.

We're going to find out just how well-placed we really are, or whether that's just more message-massaging.

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#2974032 28-Sep-2022 10:35

GV27:

The media scrutiny of RBNZ's actions has been laughable, both pre- and post-pandemic, so I wouldn't put too much stock in what local economists say or say publicly anyway. And yes, take a look at what our inflation numbers for the past few quarters are made up of - there has been a larger amount of non-tradeable inflation than people might have otherwise thought, if they'd listened to the "Oh, it's the war in Ukraine!" excuse making we've been served up.

Either way, now you're going to see real imported inflation. I'm talking from the last few weeks, not months here. It's not priced into local asking prices or fuel costs or food prices yet.

We're going to find out just how well-placed we really are, or whether that's just more message-massaging.

If the RBNZ and NZ economists are a joke, hard to know what to say. We have had imported inflation for a long while now, (UKR based oil prices that affect everything, Covid supply issues and thus demand inflation, Covid sick days that cause demand issues) if that continues and increases then maybe we need new a RBNZ leader and new economists

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#2974039 28-Sep-2022 10:42

It's this not the EV news thread?

I was sure that's what the subject said.

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Obraik

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#2974057 28-Sep-2022 11:19

Dingbatt:

Even with the rebate, it is very difficult to justify purchasing a new EV on financial benefit alone. You need to have another reason to do it. It may be as simple as the ‘feel good’ factor involved in owning an EV. That can stem from environmental concern, or not being tied to imported energy sources (yes I know we are importing coal), or even just enjoying the driving experience.

If you are looking at running costs you also need to factor in servicing costs (for both), (future) road user charges and electricity costs.

It really depends what options you're looking at when it comes to financial benefit. If you're comparing a Swift to an Atto 3 then yeah, you're paying a premium. But if you're comparing an Atto 3 to something like a Mazda CX5 then the Atto 3 is essentially the same price and has the clear win for financial benefit.

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#2974074 28-Sep-2022 11:53

Obraik:But if you're comparing an Atto 3 to something like a Mazda CX5 then the Atto 3 is essentially the same price and has the clear win for financial benefit.

This is like saying saying because Apples and Lemons are both $4.99/kg at the supermarket they are equivalent. They are both fruit and both the same price, so the financial benefit is the same. But most people would be disappointed to find a lemon in their packed lunch!

A more accurate comparison would be the Kona electric and the Kona ICE.

By all means an Atto 3 is an excellent choice for a round town family wagon. But people need to recognise there are compromises to be made to ‘drive electric’. Not sure what depreciation will be like. I guess the MG ZS will be a good indicator now the new model has come out.

I do think it is wise to factor in a change of policy wrt the rebate if your purchase is not going to arrive until the end of next year. The opposition has already signalled an end to the “Ute Tax” (their words), so whether that is just the levy, or the rebates as well, who would know.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Obraik

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#2974090 28-Sep-2022 11:59

Dingbatt:

This is like saying saying because Apples and Lemons are both $4.99/kg at the supermarket they are equivalent. They are both fruit and both the same price, so the financial benefit is the same. But most people would be disappointed to find a lemon in their packed lunch!

A more accurate comparison would be the Kona electric and the Kona ICE.

By all means an Atto 3 is an excellent choice for a round town family wagon. But people need to recognise there are compromises to be made to ‘drive electric’. Not sure what depreciation will be like. I guess the MG ZS will be a good indicator now the new model has come out.

I do think it is wise to factor in a change of policy wrt the rebate if your purchase is not going to arrive until the end of next year. The opposition has already signalled an end to the “Ute Tax” (their words), so whether that is just the levy, or the rebates as well, who would know.

Hyundai's pie in the sky pricing isn't really comparable though - the Kona EV is an overpriced vehicle and I suspect it's priced the way it is because they'd rather you buy a similarly priced Ioniq 5.

The Atto 3 is essentially a competitor to the CX5 so comparing the price of both isn't some outlandish thing that you seem to be implying.

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#2974123 28-Sep-2022 12:49

Obraik:

Hyundai's pie in the sky pricing isn't really comparable though - the Kona EV is an overpriced vehicle and I suspect it's priced the way it is because they'd rather you buy a similarly priced Ioniq 5.

The Atto 3 is essentially a competitor to the CX5 so comparing the price of both isn't some outlandish thing that you seem to be implying.

Chinese brands tend to be cheaper.

Perhaps comparing to something like the $29,990 +ORC Havall Jolion Premium would be better.

On the CX-5, note that it has AWD available, and has 1800kg tow rating.

On Kona electric pricing, Yeah it's high. This needs some revision in light of the launch of the second generation kia niro. Niro packs a similar drivetrain, but at a much lower price, with more cargo space, and including features like a small Frunk and vehicle to load.

Obraik

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#2974247 28-Sep-2022 14:25

Based on sitting in the car and interacting with its infotainment, I'm wouldn't put the Atto 3 in the same league as the cheaper Chinese brands (Haval and MG). The BYD quality seemed perfectly good enough to compete with the Japanese (and Korean for that matter) brands. Although I haven't been in a 2022 Mazda, based on having a 2020 flagship Mazda (Mazda 6 wagon, but previously a CX5) in my household for a few years, the BYD's infotainment was leagues above Mazda's. The Atto 3 also obviously has far more get up and go than a CX5.

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#2974289 28-Sep-2022 15:40

I am going to start locking people out of this sub-forum @tdgeek

Obraik

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#2974339 28-Sep-2022 18:57

As I suspected, Ford has priced a Mach-E model just under the rebate cap ($79,990). The top spec model is $124k

Mach-E choice spans from rebate-winner to racer — Motoringnz

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tukapa1

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#2974342 28-Sep-2022 19:01

Obraik:
As I suspected, Ford has priced a Mach-E model just under the rebate cap ($79,990). The top spec model is $124k

Mach-E choice spans from rebate-winner to racer — Motoringnz

That's a seriously ugly car.

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