EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2987683 25-Oct-2022 13:06

billgates:

The government needs to subsidize Solar PV, eBikes and public transport. They should invest more on public transport specially trains. A lot of freaking trains. Interconnect cities with trains.

Completely agree with you on this.

Those with $ will buy an EV regardless as their next car most likely with cost of fuel on going up.

The feebate system has worked to get more EVs on NZ roads. I don't think you would have seen the same uptake in EVs if it wasn't for the feebate scheme.

Not sure which average joe that can afford a $76k Tesla in the first place, really needs help offsetting their purchase with $8.5k. EV's do not solve traffic congestion.

Same average joe that buys a new Ford Ranger or Toyota Highlander. Lot's of cars in that price bracket. And $8625 is a good chunk of money. It brings the Teslas down at around $70,000 mark.

Otherwise it is hard to argue that EVs don't solve traffic congestion. Especially for Auckland the answer to traffic problems there is not more roads or different cars, but better public transport.

But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a move towards electrifying cars.

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MarkH67

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#2987686 25-Oct-2022 13:24

billgates:

The government needs to subsidize Solar PV, eBikes and public transport. They should invest more on public transport specially trains. A lot of freaking trains. Interconnect cities with trains. Those with $ will buy an EV regardless as their next car most likely with cost of fuel on going up. Not sure which average joe that can afford a $76k Tesla in the first place, really needs help offsetting their purchase with $8.5k. EV's do not solve traffic congestion.

I agree that more should be done to encourage walking, cycling, public transport, e-scooters, e-bikes, etc. BUT - not everyone will have an easy solution to ditch their car and if they must drive a car then it would be better if it didn't burn fossil fuels. I'd like to see a carbon tax added to fossil fuels (petrol, diesel, LPG, coal, etc) and the income from that used to promote walking/cycling/PEVs and to subsidise public transport and to help fund rail improvements. I also think that the EV subsidies are generally a good thing to help drive the transition away from fossil fuel burners.

wellygary

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#2987809 25-Oct-2022 14:26

MarkH67:

I'd like to see a carbon tax added to fossil fuels (petrol, diesel, LPG, coal, etc) and the income from that used to promote walking/cycling/PEVs and to subsidise public transport and to help fund rail improvements. I also think that the EV subsidies are generally a good thing to help drive the transition away from fossil fuel burners.

It already exists,

its called the ETS, (Emission trading scheme) , and in May this year $2.9 billion over the next 4 years was allocated to a number of "eco" projects, its still got $1.6 billion slushing round unallocated.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/climate-investments-provide-path-economic-security

It included these two projects

"Helping people reduce their transport costs requires greater transport choice. Budget 2022 will take
a significant step toward reducing vehicle use in urban centres through a $375 million fund to
deliver mode shift and reduce emissions from transportation. This will also provide additional
support to our broader investments in transportation mode shift. Investing in making walking,
cycling and public transport more attractive options will help make our cities more liveable and help
local councils transition toward low-emissions urban environments.

"$41 million investment to support the decarbonisation of public transport through supporting
Public Transport Authorities to deploy low- and zero-emissions buses; and $20 million funding to
support innovations in the decarbonisation of freight through co-funding for projects
demonstrating low emission freight technologies, fuels, services, infrastructure, innovations and
business models."

Dingbatt

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#2987818 25-Oct-2022 14:48

I was listening to a popular talkback radio host this morning before starting work with a colleague who is a fellow Tesla owner. The radio chap was having a rant about the rebate scheme and “how it was subsidising Tesla owners, who could afford to buy a $75000 car anyway. And it was skewing the market”.

My colleague’s comment was “but that’s what it’s supposed to do”.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

gzt

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#2987822 25-Oct-2022 14:54

Otherwise it is hard to argue that EVs don't solve traffic congestion.

At least they're not stinking up the place and burning gas and creating CO2 for nothing while sitting in the exact same traffic. It's a long shot : ).

gzt

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#2987825 25-Oct-2022 14:57

The EV subsidy will be better bang for the buck when the BYDs start arriving in reasonable numbers. 7K off a 50k car will make a difference. As an unknown brand it will take some adoption and experience before it starts to pull through.

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#2988355 26-Oct-2022 17:46

Toyota trying to figure out what they're actually doing

https://electrek.co/2022/10/24/toyota-struggles-ev-shift-changing-plans-due-tesla/

richms

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#2988387 26-Oct-2022 21:39

Batman:

Toyota trying to figure out what they're actually doing

https://electrek.co/2022/10/24/toyota-struggles-ev-shift-changing-plans-due-tesla/

Its not just Toyota, its all of Japan. Nissan made the leaf and then they forgot to innovate on that for a decade while China, Korea and Tesla were doing their thing and now they have nothing worth buying from any of them.

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#2988528 27-Oct-2022 06:23

richms:

Its not just Toyota, its all of Japan. Nissan made the leaf and then they forgot to innovate on that for a decade while China, Korea and Tesla were doing their thing and now they have nothing worth buying from any of them.

maybe for you but ... umm hybrids with small battery + small ICE are very popular in the 3rd world where average pay is 100US a month

but margins will be small for rthose cars.

EV brings in $$$ but at the eventual loss of skill & jobs (no need for mechanics)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-21/porsche-believes-it-can-make-more-profit-selling-electric-cars

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/porsche-ceo-believes-evs-will-be-more-profitable-than-ice-cars/

amanzi

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#2988545 27-Oct-2022 08:31

Batman:

Toyota trying to figure out what they're actually doing

https://electrek.co/2022/10/24/toyota-struggles-ev-shift-changing-plans-due-tesla/

Can anyone explain why Toyota is considered "delusional" for investing in hydrogen fuel cell and hybrid vehicles?

HarmLessSolutions

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#2988547 27-Oct-2022 08:35

amanzi:

Batman:

Toyota trying to figure out what they're actually doing

https://electrek.co/2022/10/24/toyota-struggles-ev-shift-changing-plans-due-tesla/

Can anyone explain why Toyota is considered "delusional" for investing in hydrogen fuel cell and hybrid vehicles?

A very educational watch.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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amanzi

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#2988549 27-Oct-2022 08:44

HarmLessSolutions:

A very educational watch.

Thanks - I'll watch that now. I have heard of David Cebon recently after reading this article: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/30-08-2022/has-the-government-been-fooled-into-embracing-green-hydrogen

I understand that with today's technology Hydrogen is inefficient and in countries that rely on fossil fuels for electricity generation, it's not very clean either. But does that apply to us in NZ (currently operating at 93% renewable generation as at 7:30am this morning) and couldn't this improve over time with investment and innovation?

kiwifidget

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#2988550 27-Oct-2022 08:47

I'm grappling with the difference between Hybrid (HEV) and PHEV.

I know Hybrid doesnt plug-in, and recharges from driving.

And PHEV recharges from plugging into power.

They both have an ICE. Small battery range, and larger fuel range.

But does a hybrid recharge if the ICE doesnt get used ie too many short trips in a row??

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GV27

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#2988557 27-Oct-2022 08:59

amanzi:

I understand that with today's technology Hydrogen is inefficient and in countries that rely on fossil fuels for electricity generation, it's not very clean either. But does that apply to us in NZ (currently operating at 93% renewable generation as at 7:30am this morning) and couldn't this improve over time with investment and innovation?

Because there's no getting around the fact that retrofitting a filling station in today dollars is going to lock in a huge required return in terms of pricing for the end product. That's a very hard sell for people when the alternative is not paying for any sort of visit to a filling station at all.

And that's hydrogen's biggest weakness. It's never going to offer the same feel-good sense of independence you can get with a pretty entry-level new EV, and battery and charging tech is going to improve over time as well.

HarmLessSolutions

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#2988563 27-Oct-2022 09:09

GV27:

amanzi:

I understand that with today's technology Hydrogen is inefficient and in countries that rely on fossil fuels for electricity generation, it's not very clean either. But does that apply to us in NZ (currently operating at 93% renewable generation as at 7:30am this morning) and couldn't this improve over time with investment and innovation?

Because there's no getting around the fact that retrofitting a filling station in today dollars is going to lock in a huge required return in terms of pricing for the end product. That's a very hard sell for people when the alternative is not paying for any sort of visit to a filling station at all.

And that's hydrogen's biggest weakness. It's never going to offer the same feel-good sense of independence you can get with a pretty entry-level new EV, and battery and charging tech is going to improve over time as well.

There's far more too it and in particular the energy losses that occur through the manufacturing, transportation and end consumption. The video I posted above explains this in detail and watching it is an hour well spent.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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