EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#2991108 2-Nov-2022 16:08

Dingbatt:

Just got an email from Chargenet introducing their new tariffs (effective 30 Nov 22). For the ones that matter, 80c/kWh for fast DC charging (25-75kW - they call it “destination”) with no per minute fee anymore, and 85c/kWh for Ultra fast DC charging (76+kW - “enroute”). Then $1/min idle fees.

So effectively the same price as Tesla SCs now.

I wonder if Genesis’ lower rate EVerywhere plan will still apply?

https://charge.net.nz/resources/pricing-structure/?utm_source=Email+to+entire+database&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Email+to+entire+database

Interesting.

With the advent of more capacity-sharing chargers, time based fees are less viable.

However the original point of time-based charges was to ensure that the chargenet got reasonable rent from the charger in the event it was used for very slow charging (i.e. charging an outlander PHEV, or charging a leaf from 80% to 98%. [edit] - it might not matter. It isn't going to be worthwhile l to charge a PHEV at 80c 85c/kWh (cost would be similar to running on petrol), and that price will deter other frivolous charging on any EV.

Not sure if I like the names. AC chargers are frequently used during the day, and 25 - 75kW chargers are frequently used on route (many of our current EV fleet can't charge faster than 75kW anyway).

And it seems kinda pointless having different fees for the 76kW+ chargers to the 25- 75kW. The difference between 80c and 85c is too small to justify the extra complexity in the pricing structure.

Overall the price increase is massive (42% at the hyperchargers). I think it is the first price increase charge.net has done in its entire history, so not really that bad, but quite a shock all at once.

And all companies need to move from a loss-making growth phase to a sustainable pricing phase at some point. And those fast chargers aren't cheap to buy.

Dingbatt

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#2991110 2-Nov-2022 16:19

I guess whether your EV does 120Wh/km vs 240Wh/km may affect more than just range when it hits you in the pocket as well.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

alasta

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#2991112 2-Nov-2022 16:26

jonathan18: I’d be interested to know what proportion of EV owners in NZ don’t charge at home for a significant proportion of their regular charging; I imagine it’s pretty small.

In terms of current owners it's probably quite small, but there must be a lot of potential EV purchasers who have held off because their lack of a garage means that an EV isn't viable. In my case, I have an apartment car park with no access to electricity.

wellygary

8328 posts

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#2991182 2-Nov-2022 16:46

alasta:

I have an apartment car park with no access to electricity.

Ding, Ding, Ding,

Most apartment developers squeak when they walk and will do anything to save a Buck...

I can see some form of regulated requirement to provide access to power for EV charging in Apartment buildings in the next 5-10 years.

But for now, it will act as a big disincentive

Dingbatt

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#2991186 2-Nov-2022 17:04

The current anti-car ethos by local authorities means that developers don’t even have to worry about car parks, let alone chargers.

Ultimately, wireless charging may be the answer.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

SaltyNZ

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#2991192 2-Nov-2022 17:43

Dingbatt:

Ultimately, wireless charging may be the answer.

I'm unclear how it really changes the problem. You still have to have publicly accessible chargers on streets, or provide them in communal car parks at apartments. Whether they are wireless or not doesn't change that.

I suppose not having a cable between the charger and the car might mean one less thing to steal? OTOH, with a cable you might have some flexibility on how you park. With a wireless system, if you can't park right over it, you're SOL.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

everettpsycho

614 posts

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#2991198 2-Nov-2022 18:23

I've got two questions about the new rates, is the 76kW charger charged based on the charger or the speed it charges? So if it's the only charger available and I plug a leaf in to it will I get stung the higher pricing?

Also the idle fees are something I agree with, but if there's multiple bays at the charger can you disengage the charge over the app so the next people can unplug the car if they are waiting. It's not something I've done but would make sense that you aren't hogging the charger just the parking bay that can't be used anyway if another car plugs in. I'd still like to see their app let you register that you want the charger and give you a notification and time window to plug in once it's vacated.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#2991216 2-Nov-2022 19:29

everettpsycho: I've got two questions about the new rates, is the 76kW charger charged based on the charger or the speed it charges? So if it's the only charger available and I plug a leaf in to it will I get stung the higher pricing?

Also the idle fees are something I agree with, but if there's multiple bays at the charger can you disengage the charge over the app so the next people can unplug the car if they are waiting. It's not something I've done but would make sense that you aren't hogging the charger just the parking bay that can't be used anyway if another car plugs in. I'd still like to see their app let you register that you want the charger and give you a notification and time window to plug in once it's vacated.

The way I'm interpretting the new rates, so long as you're using the DC capability of the charging unit the new rate applies irrespective of the rate at which your EV can accept that charge.

So far as the idle fees are concerned many chargers have limited parking spaces that can be used when accessing the charger. If you're occupying one of those spaces then you are stopping another vehicle from charging irrespective of whether you have remotely disconnected the charge cycle. Essentially if your charge is done then get the hell out of the way of others.

ChargeNet are well aware of the increasing demand for charging facilities and are implementing measures to streamline charging for all customers. Steve West has stated right from the start that this investment was a long term one for them with slim returns initially and I guess he's now working to gain some realistic returns from the substantial funds he's sunk into this venture.

Personally the rate increase will have very limited effect on our everyday charging which is primarily done at home, largely from our own PV generation but for out of province trips the opportunity to grab a few extra ergs for our return home trip will increase to around 8x what our home charging rate is (based on lost export opportunity) so we will be trimming the battery SoC when we get home down to the safe absolute minimum.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

MarkH67

518 posts

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#2991218 2-Nov-2022 19:46

everettpsycho:

Also the idle fees are something I agree with, but if there's multiple bays at the charger can you disengage the charge over the app so the next people can unplug the car if they are waiting. It's not something I've done but would make sense that you aren't hogging the charger just the parking bay that can't be used anyway if another car plugs in. I'd still like to see their app let you register that you want the charger and give you a notification and time window to plug in once it's vacated.

I disagree with the idea of leaving your car parked while someone in the next bay takes over the charger, it would only take 2 cars doing the same thing and the 3rd can't park anywhere to use the charger that the 2 cars have finished with. I don't see it as unreasonable to expect the people needing to charge for 30 minutes to not leave there car parked at the charger for longer than that. Every day there are more and more people owning EVs and it is sheer selfishness to hog chargers or even parking bays at chargers that someone else might have a need for. You should be near enough to your car to go and unplug the charger and move the car as soon as the app advises you that the charging is complete, or set a timer to move the car after the allocated time.

RunningMan

8956 posts

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#2991222 2-Nov-2022 19:59

everettpsycho: [snip] you disengage the charge over the app so the next people can unplug the car if they are waiting.

Suspect that depends on the charger connection. Fairly sure CCS locks to the vehicle and the vehicle has to release it, which the ChargeNet app wouldn't do.

HarmLessSolutions

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#2991228 2-Nov-2022 20:41

RunningMan:

everettpsycho: [snip] you disengage the charge over the app so the next people can unplug the car if they are waiting.

Suspect that depends on the charger connection. Fairly sure CCS locks to the vehicle and the vehicle has to release it, which the ChargeNet app wouldn't do.

We arrived at an Openloop charge recently to find a car (another Polestar) there with its 90% charge complete (as displayed on the charger). No problem unplugging them and transferring the plug to our car. Owner arrived soon after (having finished his lunch) and apologised for having overrun his charging time but happy for us to have unplugged him.

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kingdragonfly

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#2991450 3-Nov-2022 10:08

Stuff: Dunedin man converting 1983 Toyota Hilux to EV for $80,000

...Hardisty runs EV-lution Ltd, specialising in electric car conversions. He’s converted engines for 13 years, but this is his first ute. He says he can’t solve the nation’s shortage in EV-utes, but it’s a start.

“It is costing me a lot of money, but the next one will be a lot cheaper because we will know so much more and materials will be cheaper.”

Wellington’s The Surgery specialises in car restoration. A conversion can cost them between $65,000 and $100,000 for parts. Then $4000 to $8000 to ship parts.

jarledb

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#2991467 3-Nov-2022 11:22

I am just going to leave this here....

You are welcome.

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Linuxluver

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#2991498 3-Nov-2022 13:56

SaltyNZ:

afe66: I wonder if this EV ute will quieten the anti EV ute tax brigade if available here in numbers.

No, because it's only 10% reality and 90% boomer hate.

You mean "conservative boomer hate".

Progressive boomers were the first people to buy EVs and promote their use to address greenhouse gas emissions.

So.....really....you mean conservatives. Age doesn't really matter as far as I can tell. What matters is whether or not a person is able to perceive reality based on verifiable evidence.

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jarledb

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#2991502 3-Nov-2022 14:03

Linuxluver:

SaltyNZ:

No, because it's only 10% reality and 90% boomer hate.

You mean "conservative boomer hate".

Let's not go deeper in the weeds on this discussion. I can see that quickly turning into something that belongs in the Politics forum.

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