Clean car package

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#2729596 16-Jun-2021 12:20

Obraik:

Handsomedan:

My range anxiety hold me back from a pure EV.

I don't drive long distances often, but I do them often enough...if that makes sense.

Case in point - last weekend, I drove approx 400kms. 250km of that was in one trip.

If I had a hybrid, I'd feel OK with that. Pure EV? I'd be anxious...unless I knew I could do at least 300km on one charge.

"Why not charge while you're stopped in the other city?" I hear you ask. Because there was no charger anywhere near where I was (at a sports ground, with the nearest charger approx 2km away).

Also - I don't have a charging unit at home. If it was a standard plug, I'd have to find a way of routing the cable from car to driveway without danger or security issues.

My petrol car doesn't give me any of this anxiety...but I am willing to be persuaded (assuming a decent EV can be had for $8-12k).

With a budget of $8-12k you're not going to get an EV capable of that non-stop range, you'd be looking at a range of 90-150km of range. If you're the sort of driver that has lots of stops along a journey or doesn't mind stopping for 15-20mins at a time then one of those EVs is fine.

A SR+ Model 3 could do the whole return trip with just one 15 min stop at a charger, but you're looking at $61k for that.

And I guess that kind of proves the point that many are making...currently a secondhand budget EV is not going to be fit for purpose for a great many NZers.

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alasta

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#2729598 16-Jun-2021 12:23

Obraik:

A SR+ Model 3 could do the whole return trip with just one 15 min stop at a charger, but you're looking at $61k for that.

Is that price before or after the subsidy? What exactly is the range on a model 3?

I don't really know anything about Teslas and would rather buy a product from a more mainstream manufacturer, but Tesla's offerings seem to be an interesting indication of where the other manufacturers will go in the coming years.

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#2729600 16-Jun-2021 12:38

alasta:

Obraik:

A SR+ Model 3 could do the whole return trip with just one 15 min stop at a charger, but you're looking at $61k for that.

Is that price before or after the subsidy? What exactly is the range on a model 3?

I don't really know anything about Teslas and would rather buy a product from a more mainstream manufacturer, but Tesla's offerings seem to be an interesting indication of where the other manufacturers will go in the coming years.

Tesla site quotes the following:

Rear Wheel Drive only, Range 508km, white, 18" aero wheels, black interior, no self-driving = $71732 incl On Road Costs.

That's all standard stuff - every time you make a change the price goes up (i.e. $1500 for a different colour) etc.

https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/model3/design#overview

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#2729607 16-Jun-2021 12:56

Senecio:

The reality is, that in many cases the total cost of ownership is already at a par or better than an equivalent ICE (over a serviceable lifetime of a BEV). Its just that we're not accustomed to paying for our fuel up front at the same as purchasing the car which you are essentially doing with a BEV. $8.6K shifts that further in favour of BEVs.

Thats an interesting way to put it. Not saying its wrong, just interesting. Over the years, its been about the price premium and when price parity will occur. Battery costs reducing and so on. You may buy now and pay for future fuel up front, but in a few years if and when we get price parity thats all gone?

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#2729615 16-Jun-2021 13:02

Senecio:

The reality is, that in many cases the total cost of ownership is already at a par or better than an equivalent ICE (over a serviceable lifetime of a BEV). Its just that we're not accustomed to paying for our fuel up front at the same as purchasing the car which you are essentially doing with a BEV. $8.6K shifts that further in favour of BEVs.

And If we did, it would make many ICE cars unaffordable,

But part of the problem with capitalising ongoing operating costs is that unless you hold onto the car for the length of its life you end up at the whim of the marketplace when you sell the car as to whether you have made a good choice...

jonathan18

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#2729620 16-Jun-2021 13:07

What’s the chance that the Model Y - when it finally arrives in NZ - will have a base model coming in under the $80k threshold?

With the standard range 3 coming in at around $72k, I imagine (or hope?) there’Il be enough incentive for Tesla to introduce a standard range Y under $80k here. I, for one, would love to buy a BEV, but at the moment a medium-sized relatively affordable BEV is an oxymoron - a base-model Y could potentially fill that gap (but I’m also interested to see the Ioniq 5 - the problem being their the base model doesn’t look like it’ll have anything like the range of the standard range Y).

That said, I read that the standard range Y has been removed from the US website, but assume that’s not a permanent thing - it’s quite discombobulating how Tesla shifts its prices and even model availability around so much.

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#2729628 16-Jun-2021 13:15

wellygary:

And If we did, it would make many ICE cars unaffordable,

Like EV's are currently unaffordable?

Obraik

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#2729654 16-Jun-2021 14:18

alasta:

Is that price before or after the subsidy? What exactly is the range on a model 3?

I don't really know anything about Teslas and would rather buy a product from a more mainstream manufacturer, but Tesla's offerings seem to be an interesting indication of where the other manufacturers will go in the coming years.

That price is after the subsidy. The real world range of the SR+ is around 330-350km (Tesla quotes an NEDC range of 500km but...NEDC is shit). A long range is more like 450-480km

TBH, if you're buying a new EV it's hard to beat Tesla for value for money. Tesla is ahead when it comes to the EV drivetrain and depending on your POV, user interfaces for vehicles too. No "mainstream" manufacturer is at Tesla's level of refinement or capacity when it comes to the drivetrain.

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Obraik

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#2729656 16-Jun-2021 14:22

jonathan18: What’s the chance that the Model Y - when it finally arrives in NZ - will have a base model coming in under the $80k threshold?

With the standard range 3 coming in at around $72k, I imagine (or hope?) there’Il be enough incentive for Tesla to introduce a standard range Y under $80k here. I, for one, would love to buy a BEV, but at the moment a medium-sized relatively affordable BEV is an oxymoron - a base-model Y could potentially fill that gap (but I’m also interested to see the Ioniq 5 - the problem being their the base model doesn’t look like it’ll have anything like the range of the standard range Y).

That said, I read that the standard range Y has been removed from the US website, but assume that’s not a permanent thing - it’s quite discombobulating how Tesla shifts its prices and even model availability around so much.

It's unlikely there will be a Standard Range version of the Y. Tesla briefly introduced it as a trial but they weren't happy with its final range and scrapped it. They have indicated that they may do a RWD version of the Long Range model which would lower its price but I think it would be unlikely to fall under $80k.

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jonathan18

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#2729663 16-Jun-2021 14:39

Thanks for this; I can cross a Tesla off my (semi-realistic) wish list then, as the 3’s boot is too small (to replace a Mazda6 wagon) and unless Lotto pays out I’m not going to be able to justify the cost of a long range Y.

I may well have to settle for a PHEV (or even a standard hybrid, as I’d be looking at 2022 anyway) - maybe look at the MG EHS; Outlander, as a body design, is pretty old (and an entirely new petrol model is already out in some markets). The base-model Sorrento PHEV is a bit under the $80k limit, but that’s a lot of money for a car that still guzzles fuel...

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#2729867 16-Jun-2021 22:07

Obraik: As for price, at the moment, with the rebate the SR+ is US$3000 cheaper here than it is in the US.

How do you figure that? SR+ retails for USD 41,190 in the States (NZD 57,653).

And Californian residents can get up to USD 13k in rebates!
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/04/25/how-to-get-a-tesla-model-3-for-25000/

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Obraik

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#2729869 16-Jun-2021 22:18

exador:
Obraik: As for price, at the moment, with the rebate the SR+ is US$3000 cheaper here than it is in the US.

How do you figure that? SR+ retails for USD 41,190 in the States (NZD 57,653).

And Californian residents can get up to USD 13k in rebates!
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/04/25/how-to-get-a-tesla-model-3-for-25000/

You need to take GST off the NZ price as the US prices on Tesla's site don't include tax. So the after rebate cost is US$37040

But yes, some US states have very attractive subsidies that far outshine ours.

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#2729874 16-Jun-2021 22:44

Ford's Maverick hybrid is really interesting. US$20k with 5.9 litre per 100km urban fuel economy:

CNBC: The vehicle’s standard 2.5-liter four-cylinder hybrid powertrain is rated at 191 horsepower and 155 foot-pounds torque.

I'd love to see this replace a few of the proverbial NZ urban deduction vehicle. Ford are in a good position to give Toyota a serious headache with this and the upcoming electric F150 if Ford can get export volume up and running.

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#2730251 17-Jun-2021 16:54

I don’t believe that the Ionic 5, EV6, Model Y, Mach-E, ID4 or Enyak will arrive here for under $80K. Certainly not in a configuration that most people would want. In particular, the European manufacturers seem to put some of the safety tech in their upgrade ‘packs’ and as soon as you add those the price will definitely be over the arbitrary limit. Certainly if you opt for the long range versions then the extra battery cost will tip it over the limit. The psychology of ‘range anxiety’ would be alleviated for some people by being able to get that extra 100-160km.

None of the above vehicles is a ‘luxury’ vehicle. They are all what could be considered ‘family’ cars. If the NZ government thinks their limit will force international companies, that currently can’t meet demand as it is, to discount their price for NZ, then as the Mitre10 ad says, “Mate, you’re dreaming!”.

$100K would allow all of these vehicles to fit in the scheme, unless the government really only want NZers to drive ‘People’s Cars’.

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#2730255 17-Jun-2021 16:57

The model 3 is considered a luxury vehicle, so the Model Y would also, because it is essentially an SUV version of the model 3. I mean it has automatic everything. Whereas a basic everyday EV lacks many of the features of the Model 3 and Y. They could make these cars a lot cheaper if they removed a lot of the luxury features.

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