EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3121643 29-Aug-2023 16:15

alasta:

HarmLessSolutions:

The introduction of RUCs next year will further complicate that situation. I've crunched the numbers on our Polestar2 and the cost per km when charged at Chargenet's rates plus RUCs (assuming the 7c/km diesel rate) is level pegging with petrol cost per km for an equivalent ICE. There will be a degree of discontent occurring in the next few months as the new RUC system is revealed and in the meantime all bets are off.

This is my exact situation. I live in an apartment with a remote car park that has no access to power, so from a financial point of view I am substantially better off with an efficient petrol vehicle.

I looked at the Genesis Energy+Chargenet deal, but I got the impression that it's designed for people who charge at home and want cheap public charging as an add-on. I was slightly confused as to what, if any, implications there would be if you didn't do any charging at home.

I recently crunched the numbers for my sister in London who was looking to replace her Mini. With no off street charging ability the cost of public charging an EV was significantly more than for putting petrol in an equivalent ICE, plus the inconvenience of finding charging facilities. The Ukraine situation has completely upended the electricity market in the UK and they have yet to implement 'Road taxes' on EVs so their situation is even more difficult than what we're seeing here.

My sister ended up with another ICE Mini and will reevaluate her situation in a few years.

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jarledb

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#3121644 29-Aug-2023 16:19

mattwnz:

They were also looking at the Toyota BZ4X which is due out next year, which looks to be a better EV setup, but imagine it will be very popular and there will be a waiting list like there is for RAV4s.

They should have a look at the Volvo EX30 as well, if they want a car in the size of the UX300E.

The BZ4X have had some issues that Toyota seem to have fixed, but it still a fairly lackluster EV IMHO. And that is coming from a former Toyota fanboy. But it is a significantly bigger car than the UX300e, and it is actually a bespoke BEV.

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jonathan18

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#3121658 29-Aug-2023 17:31

KrazyKid:
What are peoples thoughts on the sweetspot for upgrading a 24KW leaf. …
Thinking about the new MG4 ($40K) or maybe a used Kona 64KW (seem to be around $35K?)

Any other thoughts on cars?

I was looking at s/h options recently to replace my wife’s 24kW Leaf. We similarly discounted the idea of replacing an old Leaf with a modern Leaf on the basis we don’t want to see the same battery deterioration/loss of range over time! At that price point, in terms of s/h options I narrowed it down to the Kona, Ioniq and Niro. The batteries in these Hundais/Kias seem to be much better in terms of longevity (and, of course, have active cooling…).

In the end, my wife wouldn’t counternance any of those models, and went with a base-model MG4.

Other s/h options for you could include the MG ZS; also, until the end of the month the new base-model ZS is only $1k more than the cheapest MG4, so $42k after rebate and incl ORC.

everettpsycho

614 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3121995 30-Aug-2023 19:12

Got the inevitable email today from Zero, the free charging will be coming to an end in September, or November if you are a Meridian customer. Going forward the AC charging will be 50c/kWh and DC charging will vary by site. Not surprising it has to come eventually, was good while it lasted though. Full email below.

Over the last year, the Zero network has delivered more than 40,000 free public charging sessions for EV drivers and built the second largest EV charging network in Aotearoa, with over 250 charge points.

To enable the network to grow and provide more public charging coverage for EV drivers, we’re starting to turn on payment for our AC chargers from Wednesday 27 September 2023.

To keep it easy, we will have a set rate for AC charging, so you’ll always know how much it’ll cost to charge. The only exception to this is some AC chargers will remain free thanks to the support of the landowners. You’ll be able to find the chargers that are free in the Zero app from 27 September 2023, when the new AC charge rate is applied. 

As a Meridian customer, you get free AC charging until 30 November 2023*
The Zero network is brought to you by Meridian Energy. To thank you for being a Meridian and Zero customer, you will receive extended free AC charging on the Zero network until 30 November 2023*.

You don’t need to do anything to get this extra free charging – it will be automatically applied to your Zero account on 27 September 2023 and is valid for AC charging sessions until 30 November 2023 inclusive.
*Terms & conditions apply. 

Zero charging rates from 27 September 2023.

Charge rate Pe-authorisation card amount
AC charging 50c/kWh $20 per charge
DC charging Varies by charger, you can find individual charger costs and idle fees (if applicable) in the Zero App $30 per charge
The pre-authorisation is the total amount held on your card at the start of each charge. At the end of the charge when the total charge amount is known, the difference is then refunded back to your bank. This amount can take a few days to release back on your card depending on your bank’s processing times.

Want to find out more about the Zero network or charger locations?
Visit the Zero website here.

It’s a journey and we are just beginning. We are committed to installing more charge points across Aotearoa to help EV drivers and reducing emissions.

Thanks for being on the electric journey with us.

Obraik

2123 posts

Uber Geek

#3122256 31-Aug-2023 15:00

I'm wondering if Merdian customers are getting an extension while they work out the details of using your Meridian power rates/charging to your Meridian bill when using one of their public chargers. It'd be a bit of a miss on their part if they didn't do some kind of integration, considering Genisis has partnered with ChargeNet to do that.

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Dingbatt

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#3122465 1-Sep-2023 08:13

I was looking at some of the Trademe listings for EVs of a size to replace our petrol Ford Focus. A particular retailer is showing “ex-demonstrator” vehicles as qualifying for the $7015 rebate. I thought when a vehicle was registered, it then qualified for the rebate (all the vehicles pictured had number plates) which only the first owner could claim. Or is it a case that the rebate can only be claimed once? So as long as the dealer hasn’t claimed it, you can? Or maybe the person who did the TM listings just cut and pasted without thinking….

I see a rush of registrations by dealers if the removal the rebate is announced because who isn’t going to go for pre registered at $7000 cheaper for the same vehicle?

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KrazyKid

1238 posts

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#3122481 1-Sep-2023 08:35

Rebate goes only to the first registered NZ owner.
Probably the dealer never registered the car, just used one of their imports as a demo and is now cleaning it off.

Not sure if dealers will want to register cars in there name. Probably some side effects, like paying the rego cost. But if the rebate going then the $3000 claim it seems smart to consider it its a used car. If that is the case I bet they won't pass on all the full rebate, just use it a haggle room...

Can't see them doing it for new cars as much as the are now selling a second hand car....

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Dingbatt

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#3122493 1-Sep-2023 08:50

Yeah, I’m not talking about 2nd hand imports. These are essentially new vehicles that are registered (ie have registration plates) that are listed at the RRP for new (unregistered) vehicles and have been used as demonstrators (or not as some only have delivery kms).

I would hate to think people may buy these vehicles, try to claim the rebate, only to be told it’s already been claimed.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

tukapa1

725 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3122513 1-Sep-2023 09:23

Dingbatt:
I was looking at some of the Trademe listings for EVs of a size to replace our petrol Ford Focus.

Out if interest what are you looking at? We're in the sub 50k space (after rebate) and was looking at the MG4 but my brother in law (who is a mechanic) has warned me to stay away from the cheap Chinese EVs. Some of that is just a reaction to the Chinese quality of bygone years but has me doubting the MG4 as a choice now. So much so I've started looking at second hand Toyota hybrids instead (Corolla or CH-R).

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#3122518 1-Sep-2023 09:28

tukapa1: Some of that is just a reaction to the Chinese quality of bygone years

Could well be. I mean my uncle is a mechanic and in the 90s he told my dad never to buy a Hyundai.

They've taken an early lead because the industry heavyweights spent too long denying that change was about to happen, and now their lunch is being eaten. But if the Chinese companies want to keep it that way they will have to rapidly improve on the quality. And they can definitely do it - lots of high end stuff is made in China, so it's not like they have no expertise.

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johno1234

2793 posts

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#3122519 1-Sep-2023 09:28

tukapa1:
Dingbatt:

I was looking at some of the Trademe listings for EVs of a size to replace our petrol Ford Focus.

Out if interest what are you looking at? We're in the sub 50k space (after rebate) and was looking at the MG4 but my brother in law (who is a mechanic) has warned me to stay away from the cheap Chinese EVs. Some of that is just a reaction to the Chinese quality of bygone years but has me doubting the MG4 as a choice now. So much so I've started looking at second hand Toyota hybrids instead (Corolla or CH-R).

Traditional mechanics can't really complain about any modern BEV car reliability. There's hardly any moving or serviceable parts in them compared ICE vehicles. A NZ new (i.e. standard NZ model, not imported 2nd hand) Chinese BEV such as MG, Atto and GWM is going to require far less maintenance than any ICE vehicle and they come with lengthy warranties.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3122531 1-Sep-2023 09:46

tukapa1:
Dingbatt:

I was looking at some of the Trademe listings for EVs of a size to replace our petrol Ford Focus.

Out if interest what are you looking at? We're in the sub 50k space (after rebate) and was looking at the MG4 but my brother in law (who is a mechanic) has warned me to stay away from the cheap Chinese EVs. Some of that is just a reaction to the Chinese quality of bygone years but has me doubting the MG4 as a choice now. So much so I've started looking at second hand Toyota hybrids instead (Corolla or CH-R).

Be wary of purchasing a hybrid until such time that the RUC system rejig becomes clearer. If all vehicles (or at least PHEVs) are to be charged RUCs on a distance basis (as diesels currently are) the whole attraction of hybrids' economies will change and so will their place in the secondhand market (for resale).

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Dingbatt

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#3122543 1-Sep-2023 09:59

tukapa1:
Dingbatt:

I was looking at some of the Trademe listings for EVs of a size to replace our petrol Ford Focus.

Out if interest what are you looking at? …………So much so I've started looking at second hand Toyota hybrids instead (Corolla or CH-R).

In this particular case it was the Niro EV.

Everything of a similar size to the Focus is under consideration. From “cheap Chinese” through to “not so cheap” (albeit probably made in China) European.

I have recently test driven the MG4 (review coming shortly and spoiler, I was quite impressed) and would like to try the BYD Atto3 and Dolphin. We are fortunate in being able to afford something up to the rebate limit but I would still need to see the value in it as there is a $20K spread in asking price. So at the moment that goes from the MG and BYDs all the way up to the Kia Niro and Cupra Born. In the end, although we want a slightly smaller vehicle, I hop back into my Model 3 after a test drive and can’t help compare it. At the moment the TM3 is retailing for $65K (before rebate).

The caveat on all of this is I like electric cars for the technology and smoothness and am willing to accept the compromises they bring. I’m not looking to save money or the planet. Somewhat of an unknown is what the depreciation will be like on EVs, particularly at the lower end of the market. Are you going to be able to pick up a 2 year old MG4 in 2025 for $25K?

What is giving me pause at the moment is what may be in store after the election. I am hoping each of the main players will lay out their intentions for everything in this space. From any incentives to promote electrification through to RUCs and fuel levies for the different types of energy. I was keen on a PHEV to replace the Focus. But at the moment it is difficult to know if that will achieve the best of both worlds, or the worst.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

afe66

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#3122572 1-Sep-2023 10:49

I'm expecting to be treated like diesel owners and no other rebate.
Complete reversal of current arrangement so the farming lobby can get revenge for "ute tax"

As far a climate change goes we are screwed if ppl cant wear a mask to avoid dieing there no way we will do anything that really affects us.

Such anger over not being able to claim a rebate for cars that don't exist (in their view) Don't get me started about the number of company farm cars parked outside the stadium when the highlanders play.... Work vehicle indeed.

HarmLessSolutions

969 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#3122589 1-Sep-2023 11:05

afe66: I'm expecting to be treated like diesel owners and no other rebate.
Complete reversal of current arrangement so the farming lobby can get revenge for "ute tax"

As far a climate change goes we are screwed if ppl cant wear a mask to avoid dieing there no way we will do anything that really affects us.

Such anger over not being able to claim a rebate for cars that don't exist (in their view) Don't get me started about the number of company farm cars parked outside the stadium when the highlanders play.... Work vehicle indeed.

Worst case scenario but all too likely. So far as addressing climate change our farmers are going to be forced to tow the line in the near future (probably the next electoral term) as their international markets will soon deny them access if they don't. Watch the government of the time, and the farmers and processors, squirm over that!

So far as a 'rebate' for EVs the next best thing is charging them from your own PV. Sunlight can't be taxed and PV has the best ROI if you can consume a substantial percentage of your own generation (which EV charging does) as self consumption offsets electricity that you would otherwise have to buy. Running an EV, or in our case 2 EVs on sunshine at ~2c/km (based on lost export potential price) is a great feeling environmentally and economically.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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