Auckland Transport: Hop & Snapper. Whats the real issue

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#676708 25-Aug-2012 09:46

Ugh, considering some of the stories I've heard about Auckland council and transport, this does not surprise me one bit.

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simon14

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#676710 25-Aug-2012 09:48

I'll just provide mu 2 cents here.

I live on the North Shore and work in the city.

There are 3 different bus companies that I could catch home, but all of them have different ticketing systems so my option is to either pay with cash or buy three different types of concession cards.

I blame the council for not enforcing integration...

As a result, i don't bus.

Kyanar

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#676780 25-Aug-2012 12:42

I'm slightly concerned that... again... Snapper's answer to something they don't like is to sue our council. They talk about being able to supply a bus solution for FREE to Auckland, but whenever something doesn't go their way they cost us, the ratepayers of Auckland, tons of money in legal costs because they can't stand that they aren't the first and only choice. At this point, whether they're right or wrong I just want them gone.

And Mauricio, I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that "this is the truth" for the Snapper claims when Auckland Transport claims the opposite and none of us here have any way to verifying which (if any) of them are telling the truth.

keewee01

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#676788 25-Aug-2012 13:04

Coming from another part of the country where we have no local bus services (when we did the locals didn't support it so they were canned) - and therefore I have no vested interests in Wellington or Auckland bus services - I'd have to say that the Snapper news release makes much, much more sense as being the truth about the situation.

How could Snapper ever really be the ones holding up Auckland Transport and New Zealand Transport Agency, when it is AT and NZTA's project! Think about it. All Snapper was all along was a side project by someone else that wanted to integrate with the main project! How on earth does that delay the main project unless the main project was behind schedule anyway.

This really does sound like incompetence at AT and NZTA and incompetent people at AT and NZTA coming up with excuses and trying to blame someone else for all their problems. Sure, Snapper might have had shortcomings, but in reality how would that affect the main project that in reality they're not actually part of!??

Wake up Aucklanders and take notice of what your local body authorities are up to - it is your money they are squandering!

freitasm

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#676789 25-Aug-2012 13:06

Kyanar: I'm slightly concerned that... again... Snapper's answer to something they don't like is to sue our council. They talk about being able to supply a bus solution for FREE to Auckland, but whenever something doesn't go their way they cost us, the ratepayers of Auckland, tons of money in legal costs because they can't stand that they aren't the first and only choice. At this point, whether they're right or wrong I just want them gone.

There are two sides to the story. If Snapper says they offered to develop something and the AT was not doing their part of the deal then they have every right to put their case forward. If the case costs money to taxpayers but it is found that indeed something wrong was happening, then Snapper isn't responsible for waste of money. Until something like this happens it's hard to decide on which side of the fence to stand, simply based on regional bias.

Which leads us to your next paragraph...

Kyanar: And Mauricio, I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that "this is the truth" for the Snapper claims when Auckland Transport claims the opposite and none of us here have any way to verifying which (if any) of them are telling the truth.

I'm going to quote it again and explain:

freitasm:
oxnsox:
ajobbins: Snapper media release:

https://www.snapper.co.nz/newsroom/2012/08/24/snapper-media-release/

I think the next wee while is going to be very interesting as the truth comes out!

Clearly they're very peeved.

Some media channel really needs to apply a proper journalistic investigation to this, but I suspect the disinterested Auckland public means it may never happen

This is the truth.

I was talking about "Some media channel really needs to apply a proper journalistic investigation to this, but I suspect disinterested Auckland public means it may never happen".

This is the truth I was referring to. I wasn't saying Snapper claims were the truthful ones.

keewee01

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#676790 25-Aug-2012 13:08

Oh, and the 'proof in the pudding' of what I have written is the fact that Auckland Transport are quoted? in their press release as saying Bus rollout will commence from April next year.

That just proves that the bus portion their own project with Thales is woefully delayed and they're making excuses and blaming others for it!

sbiddle

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#676799 25-Aug-2012 13:14

keewee01: Oh, and the 'proof in the pudding' of what I have written is the fact that Auckland Transport are quoted? in their press release as saying Bus rollout will commence from April next year.

That just proves that the bus portion their own project with Thales is woefully delayed and they're making excuses and blaming others for it!

Snapper were only supplying hardware for NZ Bus buses, not the other bus companies that were part of the HOP rollout (remembering not all buses will be part of the integrated ticketing). Parkeon were supplying terminals for all the other buses, and last I heard about a month ago the hardware hadn't even been finalised, let alone ordered.

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old3eyes

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#676810 25-Aug-2012 13:31

Kyanar: I'm slightly concerned that... again... Snapper's answer to something they don't like is to sue our council. They talk about being able to supply a bus solution for FREE to Auckland, but whenever something doesn't go their way they cost us, the ratepayers of Auckland, tons of money in legal costs because they can't stand that they aren't the first and only choice. At this point, whether they're right or wrong I just want them gone.

And Mauricio, I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that "this is the truth" for the Snapper claims when Auckland Transport claims the opposite and none of us here have any way to verifying which (if any) of them are telling the truth.

Me to . I would like to see the AKL council sue Snapper for not integrating the system in time. That's how it normally works in the real world. You do it on time or pay penalties..

Regards,

Old3eyes

sbiddle

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#676811 25-Aug-2012 13:37

old3eyes:
Me to . I would like to see the AKL council sue Snapper for not integrating the system in time. That's how it normally works in the real world. You do it on time or pay penalties..

That's fair enough. But when the NZTA spec keeps changing how are you supposed to build a system that's compliant with it?

keewee01

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#676820 25-Aug-2012 14:09

Ahhh... Scope Creep...

Kyanar

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#676849 25-Aug-2012 15:07

freitasm:

I was talking about "Some media channel really needs to apply a proper journalistic investigation to this, but I suspect disinterested Auckland public means it may never happen".

This is the truth I was referring to. I wasn't saying Snapper claims were the truthful ones.

Ah, my apologies then. Yes, it would definitely be good to actually get the truth from someone.

BigRat

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#676869 25-Aug-2012 15:46

Now Snapper is saying it's AT, NZTA and Thales' fault for not meeting the deadline with necessary components needed from the said 3 so they can roll out integrated ticketing

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14658534/blame-game-over-auckland-ticketing-hold-up/

keewee01

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#676912 25-Aug-2012 18:26

BigRat: Now Snapper is saying it's AT, NZTA and Thales' fault for not meeting the deadline with necessary components needed from the said 3 so they can roll out integrated ticketing

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/14658534/blame-game-over-auckland-ticketing-hold-up/

Yes, we know. freitasm posted the news release from Snapper in here a few posts ago...

compost

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Ultimate Geek

#676971 25-Aug-2012 22:48

Kyanar:
freitasm:

I was talking about "Some media channel really needs to apply a proper journalistic investigation to this, but I suspect disinterested Auckland public means it may never happen".

This is the truth I was referring to. I wasn't saying Snapper claims were the truthful ones.

Ah, my apologies then. Yes, it would definitely be good to actually get the truth from someone.

There is still a strong theme from some in this topic that far from being pushy lobby-monsters, Snapper are actually plucky locals that we should express some sort of Welly-solidarity with.

I understand that without an Auckland customer base, Snapper would be uneconomic and may have to be shut down countrywide - good riddance I say. Frankly after all this kafuffle I would like to see NZ Bus lose all their routes in Auckland, but it's hard to see who could step in.

A time-poor geek is hardly a geek at all

nigelj

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#676993 26-Aug-2012 01:52

sbiddle: Parkeon were supplying terminals for all the other buses, and last I heard about a month ago the hardware hadn't even been finalised, let alone ordered.

To be fair, wasn't non-NZ Bus' already planned as a 'stage 3' operation, I seem to recall that the idea was that NZ Bus' Snapper readers were compatibile with "AT Hop'/Thales cards, (I guess to make things less confusing for the public). It would therefore make sense that the Parkeon/Wayfarer/etc machines were not yet ordered (especially if it was unclear if Snapper/NZ Bus would meet their end of the bargin).

My concern is, surely there was already a deal signed with Parkeon to at least guarrantee supply/compatibilty at time of order for X units (where X is number of buses owned by Ritchies+H&E+Birkenhead+Anyone I forgot/small operators, plus an initial allotment of spares for replacement of faultys & new buses). So does: Termination Fees for Parkeon + Agreed upon terms for units when required + extra units that'd be needed to cover NZ Bus exceed the 10 million or so that is floating around in the media as the figure that AT will now pay Thales for their Bus solution component.

Of course, now Thales supply the whole solution, it'd be even more embarrassing for Thales/AT if something goes wrong, there are two fewer companies that the finger can be pointed to if something goes wrong.

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