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jamesrt

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#238063 1-Jul-2018 20:25
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Transmission Gully motorway looks likely to be user-pays after Labour shifts gears on tolling [stuff.co.nz]

 

Pfft.  End of commentary.


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nickb800
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  #2047031 1-Jul-2018 20:44
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They have to do something about the induced demand that will follow the road opening. Otherwise we'll get gridlock on sh1 through to the city and spend billions fixing it.

Scarcity of parking in the CBD might be sufficient alone - people will think twice about driving if we have Auckland level daily parking fees.

mattwnz
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  #2047036 1-Jul-2018 20:57
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These tolls become a class thing though, as poor people won't be able to  afford to pay the toll, and will end up using the poor mans route. So mainly the rich end up using the road. The ironic thing is that we as tax payers have paid for the road already, it wasn't ever planned to be paid for from being tolled. The toll will just be a form of revenue generation. I don't think we want to be heading down this type of route. Some states in the USA toll a lot of their roads, but have very low taxes as a result.  But I can't see taxes being lowered here.


 
 
 
 


mattwnz
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  #2047040 1-Jul-2018 21:00
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nickb800: They have to do something about the induced demand that will follow the road opening. Otherwise we'll get gridlock on sh1 through to the city and spend billions fixing it.

Scarcity of parking in the CBD might be sufficient alone - people will think twice about driving if we have Auckland level daily parking fees.

 

 

 

There will be a bottle neck somewhere else, probably in the gorge. The gully however shouldn't increase the number of vehicles on the road, except for those who will be driving on it initially for the novelty.


Jase2985
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  #2047046 1-Jul-2018 21:13
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mattwnz:

 

These tolls become a class thing though, as poor people won't be able to  afford to pay the toll, and will end up using the poor mans route. So mainly the rich end up using the road. The ironic thing is that we as tax payers have paid for the road already, it wasn't ever planned to be paid for from being tolled. The toll will just be a form of revenue generation. I don't think we want to be heading down this type of route. Some states in the USA toll a lot of their roads, but have very low taxes as a result.  But I can't see taxes being lowered here.

 

 

revenue recovery

 

likely paid for by a loan that NZTA/government has take out


freitasm
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#2047059 1-Jul-2018 21:35
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nickb800: They have to do something about the induced demand that will follow the road opening. Otherwise we'll get gridlock on sh1 through to the city and spend billions fixing it.

Scarcity of parking in the CBD might be sufficient alone - people will think twice about driving if we have Auckland level daily parking fees.

 

"Let's spend 50 years talking about a new road to make easier to get in and out of the capital city. Ooops, what we do now that people might actually want to use the road? I know, let's charge people to use a road they have already paid for with taxes..."





 

 

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Geektastic
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  #2047061 1-Jul-2018 21:37
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nickb800: They have to do something about the induced demand that will follow the road opening. Otherwise we'll get gridlock on sh1 through to the city and spend billions fixing it.

Scarcity of parking in the CBD might be sufficient alone - people will think twice about driving if we have Auckland level daily parking fees.

 

 

 

Just raise them to London levels and I guarantee that they will think a lot more than twice about it! surprised

 

 

 

I saw one car park charging $200/day when I was up there last month.






Geektastic
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  #2047063 1-Jul-2018 21:40
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freitasm:

 

nickb800: They have to do something about the induced demand that will follow the road opening. Otherwise we'll get gridlock on sh1 through to the city and spend billions fixing it.

Scarcity of parking in the CBD might be sufficient alone - people will think twice about driving if we have Auckland level daily parking fees.

 

"Let's spend 50 years talking about a new road to make easier to get in and out of the capital city. Ooops, what we do now that people might actually want to use the road? I know, let's charge people to use a road they have already paid for with taxes..."

 

 

 

 

⌃⌃⌃⌃ This!






 
 
 
 


coffeebaron
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  #2047070 1-Jul-2018 21:57
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We categorically deny that this is another new tax by the Labour government.




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UHD

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  #2047071 1-Jul-2018 21:57
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Jase2985:

 

mattwnz:

 

These tolls become a class thing though, as poor people won't be able to  afford to pay the toll, and will end up using the poor mans route. So mainly the rich end up using the road. The ironic thing is that we as tax payers have paid for the road already, it wasn't ever planned to be paid for from being tolled. The toll will just be a form of revenue generation. I don't think we want to be heading down this type of route. Some states in the USA toll a lot of their roads, but have very low taxes as a result.  But I can't see taxes being lowered here.

 

 

revenue recovery

 

likely paid for by a loan that NZTA/government has take out

 

 

The road has already been paid for out of taxes for a half century.


Handle9
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k1wi
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  #2047080 1-Jul-2018 22:45
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I wouldn‘t be opposed to an AM southbound toll. Reduces demand when needed without reducing it when it is less needed.

 

I wouldn‘t be opposed to a slightly reduced toll for community service card holders etc. The less affluent are most likely to have older, less safe cars, so there would be a benefit to having them on the safe new road, rather than the less safe old road.

 

Given the role of reduced crashes in most BCRs, I hope they modelled the cost of tolls on safety (hopefully, but i haven’t seen the toll report). One fatal crash on the old road because the driver was dissuaded by a TC toll is equivalent to millions of dollars in tolls (in just economic terms).

 

In some ways congestion is the fairest/most even charge (as well all only have 24 hours in a day).


tdgeek
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  #2047081 1-Jul-2018 22:46
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coffeebaron: We categorically deny that this is another new tax by the Labour government.

 

National actually as per @Handle9  post


wally22
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  #2047085 1-Jul-2018 23:10
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Apologies in advance for my ignorance...

 

BCRs?

 

TC?

 

Thank you


mattwnz
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  #2047090 1-Jul-2018 23:57
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tdgeek:

 

coffeebaron: We categorically deny that this is another new tax by the Labour government.

 

National actually as per @Handle9  post

 

 

 

 

According to this article, Labour were actually against a Toll for Transmission Gully, as late as late last year. https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/97567778/for-whom-the-road-tolls-transmission-gully-motorway-could-become-userpays

 

 

 

Quote "Labour transport spokesman Michael Wood said the party did not support tolling the motorway"

 

"My understanding is that past modelling has shown that a toll on Transmission Gully risks making the road so poorly used that it defeats the purpose of building it in the first place."

 

 

 

Flipflop anyone?


mattwnz
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  #2047102 2-Jul-2018 00:00
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Geektastic:

 

nickb800: They have to do something about the induced demand that will follow the road opening. Otherwise we'll get gridlock on sh1 through to the city and spend billions fixing it.

Scarcity of parking in the CBD might be sufficient alone - people will think twice about driving if we have Auckland level daily parking fees.

 

 

 

Just raise them to London levels and I guarantee that they will think a lot more than twice about it! surprised

 

 

 

 

Except it failed miserably. Now mainly only rich people drive into central London. When it was introduced, it was rare to see a car in central London, and was mainly used by buses and taxis. Tolls are a class thing, as rich people don't need to worry as they can afford to pay tolls easily. Where poor people pay a higher percentage of their earnings if they need to pay a toll. 

 

I don't think primary roads into a region, including SH1, should be tolled. If TG is tolled, why on earth wasn't the Waterview tunnel project in Auckland tolled? eg Why are Wellingtonians being treated worse than Aucklanders?


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