The Official 2017 Formula 1 Thread

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#1807236 26-Jun-2017 20:43

I was going to FF through the early laps. Merc too much power on this track, it looked like a procession was to happen, glad I didn't.

I like Vettel, he is an excellent driver, but that was more than bad. My first thoughts were black flag. Driving poorly and hitting someone is one thing, ramming is another. Not unsafe at that speed, but unsafe when something breaks at 320k is, especially suspension. Should have been DQ'ed

What caused this race to be dogdems. Many times I saw slippery slidey on exits. Tyres too hard, cant heat them, pressure too high. Maybe thats a guide to get action and bring more skill into it?

Yes, put the warehouse runoffs on many tracks back to the fans to watch from.

Good on Stroll, @responsemedianz will be happy. Two good races, calm, brought it home. He will grow a lot from this. Out quali'ed Massa too, so wasn't just luck, it still had to be driven home

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#1807240 26-Jun-2017 20:51

Poor Max he DNFed 4 times, at least 3 times in a winnable position. the gods do not want him to win yet.

Vettel - well I've seen this before. I have also seen Hamilton do silly things. And then there was a man, his name was Michael ...

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#1807244 26-Jun-2017 21:07

joker97:

Poor Max he DNFed 4 times, at least 3 times in a winnable position. the gods do not want him to win yet.

Vettel - well I've seen this before. I have also seen Hamilton do silly things. And then there was a man, his name was Michael ...

I also recall now, that man named Michael, doing what he did, actually did a copycat of another man who came before him, by the name of Aryton. If you want to be great, you gotta show 'em. Nice guys don't win in this sport. I remember this time last year we were debating whether Nico drove into Lewis ... and concluded that Nico did drive into Lewis. I wonder who won the championship that year ...

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#1807246 26-Jun-2017 21:22

joker97:

joker97:

Poor Max he DNFed 4 times, at least 3 times in a winnable position. the gods do not want him to win yet.

Vettel - well I've seen this before. I have also seen Hamilton do silly things. And then there was a man, his name was Michael ...

I also recall now, that man named Michael, doing what he did, actually did a copycat of another man who came before him, by the name of Aryton. If you want to be great, you gotta show 'em. Nice guys don't win in this sport. I remember this time last year we were debating whether Nico drove into Lewis ... and concluded that Nico did drive into Lewis. I wonder who won the championship that year ...

They can afford to be dicks, because they are too good to get rid off. But the leaders of the sport need to remind them that they can go ahead and earn their 40 million but we can penalise your points away quite easily. Thats why a DNF would have been better for Vettel in the form of a DQ. I don't have much time for Hamilton, but he was a bit stiff that the 30 second penalty Vettel was given, was spent on the headrest pitstop. It was still a 30 second penalty, seperate from Hamiltons issue, but a bit stiff.

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#1807308 27-Jun-2017 06:24

Well the post office will now have one less christmas card to send in the next 70 years.

6FIEND

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#1807409 27-Jun-2017 09:50

joker97:

6FIEND:

Wow - that was an eventful race!

So much controversy. So much excitement. But lost in all of that was possibly the biggest comeback in F1 history.

Dead last + 1 lap down and recovering to finish in second place... I don't believe that anyone has ever achieved what Bottas managed to.

Bottas unlapped from safety car and rejoined the train due to red flag. I think JB won a race from dead last.

Yes - I'd forgotten about Button's Montreal victory, but I wouldn't call that quite as big an achievement for a number of reasons. Most importantly, when he rejoined in last place (after punting both Hamilton and Alonso out of the race, and then being penalised for speeding behind the safety car) he was only 16s behind the leader. (Thanks to the safety car that he was responsible for deploying)

That's quite a different situation to being dead last and a lap down. Having done a bit of research, Jim Clark's 1967 Monza GP is quite close to Bottas' drive...

The 1967 Grand Prix of Italy at Monza is considered by many to be one of the best Formula One races in history. It was perhaps also the finest drive of Scotsman Jim Clark’s F1 career. The irony is that Clark didn’t even win the race. With Clark’s Lotus starting from pole position, Jack Brabham took the lead at the green flag, but on the 2nd lap Dan Gurney went ahead followed by Graham Hill, Clark, Bruce McLaren, Jackie Stewart and Denny Hulme. By the end of the 3rd lap on the fast, pre-chicane Autodromo Nazionale di Monza, Clark was in the lead, and for a dozen or so laps drove his classically consistent, smooth style to stretch out a good-sized lead. But on lap 14, disaster loomed.

One of Clark’s rear tires had a cut and needed to be replaced. He lost an entire lap while having the wheel changed in the pits, and the Scotsman found himself a lap behind the leaders in 15th place out of 18 starters. Rejoining the race, Clark ripped back through the field, progressively lowering the circuit record and eventually equalling his pole time of 1m 28.5s. Clark pushed his Lotus 49/3 to the edge, squaring up to pass the third-placed Surtees when Hill went out on lap 59 with an engine failure. Clark thus moved into 2nd and gradually caught Brabham and took the lead — having made up a complete lap. But it was not yet over, and with two broken Ford-Cosworth V8 engines already in the pits, Lotus team boss Colin Chapman had his fingers crossed. On the final lap, the three cars of Clark, Brabham and Surtees went into the awesome Curva Grande one behind the other when suddenly Clark’s engine cut out, which caused the car to twitch sideways. This forced Surtees and Brabham to do a lightning quick dodge round the Lotus, demonstrating why Grand Prix drivers are supremely skilled. On the final lap, the Cosworth strained for a last few drops of gasoline. Clark pummeled his red steering wheel in frustration as the low-slung, green and yellow Lotus coasted slowly toward the finish line. He was ahead of Brabham and John Surtees starting the lap, but the car had not been filled with enough fuel for such a performance. When the tumult and the shouting died down, which was nearly two hours later, the Lotus mechanics found that there still had been 11 liters left the fuel tanks in Clark’s Lotus, so he had not run out of fuel, rather the pumps had failed to pick up the last drops. After all was said and done, there had been a total of 12 lead changes in the race. Just as it is rare for one to see that many lead changes during a race today, it was a remarkably competitive race even then. Surtees won, which proved to be Honda’s first and last victory under the 3.0 liter engine formula used in F1 starting in 1966. Jim Clark’s car gently rolled past the line shortly thereafter, just a bit short of what could have been the greatest victory of his career. A truely astonishing performance not seen since the days of Nuvolari, Fangio or Moss.

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#1810441 2-Jul-2017 16:22

Quick post showing telemetry of Vettel Hamilton at Baku

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#1810536 2-Jul-2017 17:36

I hope they don't dish out future punishment for Vettel, eg keep everything to that race, eg disqualification, extra time penalty, $$$, etc.

Incidentally, a DQF will bring both drivers onto level points. Hamilton should then go on to comfortably win the title. Merc is way ahead of Ferrari in every aspect.

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#1810542 2-Jul-2017 18:05

joker97:

I hope they don't dish out future punishment for Vettel, eg keep everything to that race, eg disqualification, extra time penalty, $$$, etc.

Incidentally, a DQF will bring both drivers onto level points. Hamilton should then go on to comfortably win the title. Merc is way ahead of Ferrari in every aspect.

How so? Baku was a perfect Merc circuit. If they were way ahead why have they been always behind this year?

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#1810587 2-Jul-2017 19:49

Merc consistently qualifies in front row, so they have the faster quali car.
Their second driver is faster than Ferrari second driver.
In baku their second driver went from last to second.
They have a better strategist.
Better pit strategies.
Better support teams to bounce back from bad tyre performance.
I can't see one area that Ferrari is better at the moment. Of course things can change, but Mercedes have been getting better while Ferrari stagnated.

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#1810589 2-Jul-2017 19:51

They are not behind. In the constructors they are way ahead. Did Hamilton have a dnf somewhere? They started slow, but they have been improving every month, can't say that about Ferrari. Of course Ferrari can improve, but draw a graph now and one is going up and one is flat.

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#1810651 3-Jul-2017 06:41

joker97: Merc consistently qualifies in front row, so they have the faster quali car.
Their second driver is faster than Ferrari second driver.
In baku their second driver went from last to second.
They have a better strategist.
Better pit strategies.
Better support teams to bounce back from bad tyre performance.
I can't see one area that Ferrari is better at the moment. Of course things can change, but Mercedes have been getting better while Ferrari stagnated.

So, like the last 3 years they should be on pole every race, and likely the front row and win every race unless both DNF?

Drivers have come from well back, and unlike Jim Clarks great drive outlined above, it takes luck, and flags to fall their way.

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#1810996 3-Jul-2017 15:11

Reciprocity: Quick post showing telemetry of Vettel Hamilton at Baku

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd like to see the telemetry from the previous laps under the safety car, to see at what point Hamilton was accelerating again. I'm not defending Vettel, there's no evidence of a brake check, but if at some point after the corner Hamilton normally got on the gas, and then this lap he decided not to, then that may explain why Vettel hit him. Again, Vettel's fault for not paying attention, and I'm sure it happens often enough that he ought to be aware.

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#1811030 3-Jul-2017 15:54

mudguard:
Reciprocity: Quick post showing telemetry of Vettel Hamilton at Baku

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd like to see the telemetry from the previous laps under the safety car, to see at what point Hamilton was accelerating again. I'm not defending Vettel, there's no evidence of a brake check, but if at some point after the corner Hamilton normally got on the gas, and then this lap he decided not to, then that may explain why Vettel hit him. Again, Vettel's fault for not paying attention, and I'm sure it happens often enough that he ought to be aware.

Agree, though there's no excuse for what happened immediately afterwards.

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#1811048 3-Jul-2017 16:19

I wonder how the media and the English fans would have coped if the shoe was on the other foot?

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