Formula 1 2023 Season Discussion

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#3099985 4-Jul-2023 22:05

The situation at the race was ridiculous with track limits, but these are meant to be the best of the best, the rules say stay in the white line so that's what they should be doing. If the solution is to stick a kerb, wall or gravel trap in they'll all suddenly stay in the line just fine so they can do it, we shouldn't need to the change to the circuit for them to do that.

The real fault I see is the fia delaying it all, it should be automated in this day and age to save them manually checking 1400 passes of each corner for violations and they'll be looking for standout exceptions where they had good reason to go wide and remove those infractions. Handing out penalties after the race for anything that happened before the penultimate lap is just bad form as no one can do anything about it to mitigate their penalties. Does feel like post race penalties should be carried over in some way instead of retrospective applications especially if there's this many, the order at the end is the order but next week they'll have their penalty at some point.

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#3100031 5-Jul-2023 07:03

Jaxson: Was first street race for nascar from memory, so new territory for those used to turning left a lot but right up his alley from supercars 👍

Great to see.

F1 cool racing at times but the new passing rules of always leaving a gap, coupled with constant track limit violations etc sees us sadly well off traditional racing now. Red Bull yawn fest at the moment, not of their making as such (as in they did nothing wrong) but now just clearly constantly dominant. Disappointing how little the new regulation seasons offered racing and passing unfortunately.

Cool to see McLaren have at least some pace. Norris unlucky to get stopped and bogged down early on in the race.

There are other street tracks, Laguna Seca and awesome Watkins Glen come to mind. Oval racing is an art, but road races up there, they bring in ringers within Nascar, noted street race drivers. All of them are average but they do well in a street race, sp given that SVG is so good and races them so much, not really surprising in hindsight. The big deal for me is lack of time getting used to the car. If he had a handful of oval raced he would be there.

Yawn fest wise, IMO that's F1. Ferrari under Schumy, Red Bull with Vettel, Mercedes with Hamilton, RBR with Max. Too many regulation changes, as when the teams close up, new regs, and you will always gets a team that nails it. When Button won, same thing, best car wins

Crossing fingers for McLaren, as both cars will have the upgrade this weekend, and big learnings from last weekend when it debuted

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#3100034 5-Jul-2023 07:11

everettpsycho: The situation at the race was ridiculous with track limits, but these are meant to be the best of the best, the rules say stay in the white line so that's what they should be doing. If the solution is to stick a kerb, wall or gravel trap in they'll all suddenly stay in the line just fine so they can do it, we shouldn't need to the change to the circuit for them to do that.

The real fault I see is the fia delaying it all, it should be automated in this day and age to save them manually checking 1400 passes of each corner for violations and they'll be looking for standout exceptions where they had good reason to go wide and remove those infractions. Handing out penalties after the race for anything that happened before the penultimate lap is just bad form as no one can do anything about it to mitigate their penalties. Does feel like post race penalties should be carried over in some way instead of retrospective applications especially if there's this many, the order at the end is the order but next week they'll have their penalty at some point.

In the SVG Nascar race I watched, they go WELL off the track, as though there is no track go where you want. BUTTTT there was grass as well, and they stayed off that, so perhaps grass is an easy option. If the cars are 2 metres wide, grass starts 1.8m or 1.7m from the track limit so that if you are pushing the white line track limit, your tyres are already breaching the grass, and on a bend, that's bye bye

Re track limit delay issues they do need to sort that. Or not. If you are not continually breaching track limits you have no issue. They will learn, in fact one team told the drover to stay off track limits that's a passing benefit when those ahead get penalised. Its the same in tennis rugby etc etc and etc

thermonuclear

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#3100215 5-Jul-2023 13:59

Track limits are always an issue at this circuit, it's long overdue for remedial action if they want to eliminate the problem. I have some sympathy with the drivers saying it's difficult to judge with the visibility they have in the car, as well as the external issue of wind pushing the cars slightly off the desired line.

All the ideas already mentioned would be an improvement. I'm interested in the rumble strips on the corners at Spielberg, which appear to be little more than painted on to the existing tarmac. They certainly don't appear to have the profile of more severe offerings at other circuits. More height with the potential to cause floor damage would quickly have the drivers being more circumspect with the go-pedal and the lines they take.

RBR continue to be miles ahead of the competition, none of Ferrari, Merc or Aston Martin look remotely like seriously challenging for a win in my view, despite the up-beat comments that come out of some quarters of those teams.

The upgrade package on Lando's car did appear to offer them some hope that they're advancing that car, but it's one thing to be lapping at similar times to Max when you're 30 seconds down the track, and another thing entirely to be battling him for the lead. I suspect Lando's times flatter to deceive a little bit unfortunately. RBR has the measure of this field easily in all conditions and track-types.

thermonuclear

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#3100224 5-Jul-2023 14:17

With deVries continuing to have limited impact at AT, Lawson needs to get his Super Formula campaign back on track next weekend at Fuji if he wants to exert pressure for a seat in 2024. Disappointing to hear Danny Ric's name being mentioned in relation to an AT drive next year.

Can't really think of any example in more recent times of a "recycled" driver past his peak moving to another team and having more success than that which initially made him famous (though I'm happy to stand corrected on that).

I think Ricciardo has had a good go, I'd much prefer to see a new kid get a shot than the Hulkenbergs of this world, even if it's not Lawson.

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#3101641 9-Jul-2023 12:12

McLaren are back. Messy little track in Austria or the fast Silverstone, it works now. Oscar got his upgrade so he is right there too

Looking at Piastri, makes me wonder about Sergio's continual downward slide, and Liam Lawson.

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#3101652 9-Jul-2023 12:43

tdgeek:
McLaren are back. Messy little track in Austria or the fast Silverstone, it works now. Oscar got his upgrade so he is right there too

Looking at Piastri, makes me wonder about Sergio's continual downward slide, and Liam Lawson.

Yeah that’s a welcome result.
Albon ringing everything out of that Williams too.

Another Perez disaster qualifying.

thermonuclear

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#3101679 9-Jul-2023 14:34

Great result for McLaren, can't immediately think of a car upgrade that has had such a significant impact. They were previously vying for the wooden spoon with AT it felt like. The factory deserve a huge pat on the back.

Wouldn't like to be in Checo's shoes, he's fallen off the proverbial cliff in the past few outings. The phrase "my grandmother could drive that car faster" springs to mind. Not a great place to be with the silly season about to get into full swing again.

They have Ricciardo waiting in the wings, I'd be interested to know how much sim time he's had and how he measures up against Checo's sim performance. Isn't Albon still a contracted Red Bull driver on loan to Williams? Could they put him back in the second seat?

Don't think Tsunoda is a realistic chance, he's more likely to be done in F1 at the end of the season with Honda signed to go elsewhere. As a Kiwi I'd like Lawson for the seat but they always funnel their drivers through AT first. A smart place to start with the recent announcements about the two RB teams working closer on car development.

Lawson has to win the SF Championship this year to be any realistic chance for a look in though.

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#3101737 9-Jul-2023 19:18

thermonuclear:

Ricciardo waiting in the wings, I'd be interested to know how much sim time he's had and how he measures up against Checo's sim performance.

Yeah he arrived as damaged goods, like Red Bull were taken back at this shell of a man that turned up claiming to be the DR that once drove for them.

I'd be interested to see how he compares now, and if he's been able to drop the years of training he gave himself to drive that pig of a McLaren.

It basically broke him.

He was hot property when he left Red Bull, but became a flight risk when he surprised everyone moving from Renault to McLaren.
Then he couldn't make an impact at McLaren and what was a top driver now did not have the street cred at all to be valuable property anymore.

I suspect Red Bull have him for sim work and for promotional PR events as he is well known as a personality.

Perez is looking at game over with these antics. Max is literally leading the constructors championship all by himself, but if that was closer then the pressure would be on Perez even more.

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#3101786 10-Jul-2023 07:12

Jaxson:

Yeah he arrived as damaged goods, like Red Bull were taken back at this shell of a man that turned up claiming to be the DR that once drove for them.

I'd be interested to see how he compares now, and if he's been able to drop the years of training he gave himself to drive that pig of a McLaren.

It basically broke him.

He was hot property when he left Red Bull, but became a flight risk when he surprised everyone moving from Renault to McLaren.
Then he couldn't make an impact at McLaren and what was a top driver now did not have the street cred at all to be valuable property anymore.

I suspect Red Bull have him for sim work and for promotional PR events as he is well known as a personality.

Perez is looking at game over with these antics. Max is literally leading the constructors championship all by himself, but if that was closer then the pressure would be on Perez even more.

I predict Perez is out for 2024. He is at his peak he won't improve. and he's not getting the points. Max has broken him. Hulk is a better option (not sure of his contract) , or better yet give Lawson a year.

Great race this morning. McLaren are definitely back. 2nd best car by a margin at Silverstone, and given how Lando went at Austria, a very different track, every reason to see them as No.2 now.

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#3101801 10-Jul-2023 08:41

McLaren fan. Stoked right now, but was extremely nervous and antsy from Norris' pitstop and seeing the white hard tyre (even Ted was saying "surely it has to be softs") until Hamilton's radio call about his tyres being cooked.

Piastri drove really well, hoped he would get third, but happy for Hamilton too - he was pretty classy post-race.

Verstappen + RB meanwhile were class on the track. But the best of the rest race is *super* close.

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#3101804 10-Jul-2023 08:46

tdgeek:

Great race this morning. McLaren are definitely back. 2nd best car by a margin at Silverstone, and given how Lando went at Austria, a very different track, every reason to see them as No.2 now.

McLaren seem to excel in high speed corners and cool conditions, and we had both of those at Austria and Silverstone. Hungary is next up and very slow and twisty, and usually stinking hot. So very much trying to keep my hopes in check.

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#3101810 10-Jul-2023 08:59

mdf:

McLaren fan. Stoked right now, but was extremely nervous and antsy from Norris' pitstop and seeing the white hard tyre (even Ted was saying "surely it has to be softs") until Hamilton's radio call about his tyres being cooked.

Piastri drove really well, hoped he would get third, but happy for Hamilton too - he was pretty classy post-race.

Verstappen + RB meanwhile were class on the track. But the best of the rest race is *super* close.

The hards was a surprise, but they overheat tyres, so hards seemed to mitigate that problem, plus they were fresh. Hard to know if Hamilton did cook his tyres, drivers tend to blame anything. Russell used his softs on high fuel, so softs on low fuel and rubbered in track should not be an issue

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#3101812 10-Jul-2023 09:07

mdf:

McLaren seem to excel in high speed corners and cool conditions, and we had both of those at Austria and Silverstone. Hungary is next up and very slow and twisty, and usually stinking hot. So very much trying to keep my hopes in check.

Both have some slow corners, McLaren had no obvious issues there. The key for me is that this is a new car, not just a couple of upgrades, so I'm seeing it as a strong upgrade on all tracks. Naturally, for all cars, some tracks are better than others, but to me this car is locked in. Plus they have only had 1.5 races with this new spec car, so there will be some learnings and tweaks. Not sure how the issue of overheating tyres will work as the car is very different, but glass half full, if its a better car, with better aero and mechanical grip, that will help the tyres too

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#3101818 10-Jul-2023 09:10

I think Lewis did. given he fell back and then caught up again before fading away to the point that another lap and Piastri would have had him. The Mercedes is just so gentle on tyres BUT when they push them they kill them fast due to the back of the car not being great, seems to always be the rears they overheat in slow speed traction zones.

Love it that McLaren did well and I hope it continues. Also impressed with the Williams but I think the circuit suited their strengths. what has happened to Ferarri? I know that the SC played in to their rivals strategies but still to start 4/5 and end up 9/10 speaks volumes for their team performance.

Max has got this championship in the bag. I would suggest that this is far more dominant than Lewis was as Max's team mate is no where to be found! While Mercedes where rampant during the early stages of the V6 hybrids and I therefore hold no issue with RB doin the same, Nico and Lewis where at each other and provided entertainment and uncertainty (Barcelona 2016 anyone!?) at the front even if it was just merc vs. merc... now we just have Max sailing off in to the distance and managing the tyres/car without too much issue and if anyone gets close he just blats in a faster lap.

I would like to see how fast the RB is though without its DRS as during part of the wet quali session it wasn't the fastest on the DRS straights which it normally is when DRS is allowed. Anyone see that speed graphic?

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