General Blackcaps Chat

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#2976308 2-Oct-2022 15:22

artbloke:

Yeah, since Patel took 10 wickets in an innings against India it's beyond belief he hasn't been selected again, especially in test matches...

He has played only once since his 10 wicket haul in India, and that was in the test at Lords in June. It wasn't a wicket for spin, the weather was dodgy for days, and I think they only picked him because of the historical record that it took turn. One of the many stupid selection decisions on that tour.

But the point you are making is valid, New Zealand has had a complete aversion for years to selecting spin bowlers based on their primary skill. It seems to be a mindset in this country that, if you're a spin bowler, you have to be able to bat as well. If you can't add runs, it doesn't matter how good you are at turning the ball.

I think we all also accept that Williamson, as a captain, is reluctant to either select or bowl spinners in the longer game. In the meantime Australia, with their endless supply of skilled and hostile fast bowlers, continue to back Nathan Lyon to the hilt and he has 400+ wickets to his name. Can't tell me he is significantly more skilled than Ajaz.

So, this T20 tri-series is kicking off next week. Hope the weather improves significantly in the next few days or it might be a non-event. It's been woeful here in my part of the East Coast the past couple of weeks.

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#2976453 2-Oct-2022 20:20

thermonuclear:
artbloke:

Yeah, since Patel took 10 wickets in an innings against India it's beyond belief he hasn't been selected again, especially in test matches...

He has played only once since his 10 wicket haul in India, and that was in the test at Lords in June. It wasn't a wicket for spin, the weather was dodgy for days, and I think they only picked him because of the historical record that it took turn. One of the many stupid selection decisions on that tour.

But the point you are making is valid, New Zealand has had a complete aversion for years to selecting spin bowlers based on their primary skill. It seems to be a mindset in this country that, if you're a spin bowler, you have to be able to bat as well. If you can't add runs, it doesn't matter how good you are at turning the ball.

I think we all also accept that Williamson, as a captain, is reluctant to either select or bowl spinners in the longer game. In the meantime Australia, with their endless supply of skilled and hostile fast bowlers, continue to back Nathan Lyon to the hilt and he has 400+ wickets to his name. Can't tell me he is significantly more skilled than Ajaz.

So, this T20 tri-series is kicking off next week. Hope the weather improves significantly in the next few days or it might be a non-event. It's been woeful here in my part of the East Coast the past couple of weeks.

Maybe in the short forms you might get away with a spinner that bats - no logic to it in test matches though, best chance of taking 20 wickets is selecting your best pace attack & best spinner... anyway, whether in 20/20s, ODIs or Tests your best innings totals are governed by how well your top 6 bat.

Williamson is a very average captain, he definitely doesn't read situations well... even if a wicket doesn't suit a spinner they can still be effective, because they come on to the bat much slower that a pace bowler can force batsmen to play a false shots, giving the spinner a decent chance of still getting wickets.

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#2986422 22-Oct-2022 23:27

Wow, just wow!!

(Context for anyone who reads this days, weeks, months down the track. NZ has just beaten AU in a world cup T20 by 89 runs in Sydney.)

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

Dochart

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#2986424 22-Oct-2022 23:46

Good that we lost the toss today. I’m quite surprised that they think it’s better to bowl first. Whenever I watch the Big Bash League when they play at the SCG 99% of the time the team that bats first always win.

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#2986435 23-Oct-2022 08:06

Ill reserve judgement. Annoyingly we went to friends for tea so wasnt able to watch it. But we were obliterated by RSA, didnt get a second warm up in and we smashed OZ?? We need to be repeating top performances, so lets see what happens. Ive got a lot of scar tissue watching the Black Caps over the years

artbloke

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#2986731 23-Oct-2022 11:59

This time we managed to keep the foot on the throat against Aussie... unlike those awful bloody matches against them in the Chappell-Hadlee Series.

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tdgeek

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#2986787 23-Oct-2022 12:27

artbloke:

This time we managed to keep the foot on the throat against Aussie... unlike those awful bloody matches against t hem in the Chappell-Hadlee Series.

Yep but bear in mind that 200 is an excellent score, that adds pressure before they face a ball and that almost half our score was from one player. I’d be prefer our batters rolled out 30’s and 40’s with monotonous regularity

thermonuclear

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#2986932 23-Oct-2022 16:40

Dochart: Good that we lost the toss today. I’m quite surprised that they think it’s better to bowl first. Whenever I watch the Big Bash League when they play at the SCG 99% of the time the team that bats first always win.

I'd say the determining factor was that there was weather around and perhaps both captains wanted to control the chase if Duckworth Lewis came into it.

Very surprising result, especially when I saw the named NZ XI. Still, they got it done, so credit to them.

Fearless game from Allen, Conway looks like he is back in top form after being a little inconsistent by his own high standards earlier in the year. And the excitement-machine Phillips, surely the catch of the year.

Still think it's time for Williamson to step down from T20 cricket, he's just not getting it done in the short game. Should have pushed Phillips in at first drop instead of himself once Allen got out to try and keep the run rate up.

Where's Milne, did he get injured again in the warm-up against SA?

Dochart

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#2986939 23-Oct-2022 17:14

thermonuclear:
Dochart: Good that we lost the toss today. I’m quite surprised that they think it’s better to bowl first. Whenever I watch the Big Bash League when they play at the SCG 99% of the time the team that bats first always win.

I'd say the determining factor was that there was weather around and perhaps both captains wanted to control the chase if Duckworth Lewis came into it.

Very surprising result, especially when I saw the named NZ XI. Still, they got it done, so credit to them.

Fearless game from Allen, Conway looks like he is back in top form after being a little inconsistent by his own high standards earlier in the year. And the excitement-machine Phillips, surely the catch of the year.

Still think it's time for Williamson to step down from T20 cricket, he's just not getting it done in the short game. Should have pushed Phillips in at first drop instead of himself once Allen got out to try and keep the run rate up.

Where's Milne, did he get injured again in the warm-up against SA?

Agree with that comment about Williamson. I was expecting Phillips to go next after Allen got out then Williamson came in and played a test match innings of 23 runs (23 balls). They should have at least tried to continue at the same run rate when Allen was still in.

They are managing both Ferguson and Milne as they are coming back from injury. I would expect Milne to play in the next game and Ferguson out. I hope Daryl Mitchell comes back the next game. I would play him ahead of Chapman any day.

I was surprised with NZ dropping Guptill. I have been waiting a long time for this to happen. I think having Allen and Conway as our openers for T20i is the best for the Blackcaps.

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#2986971 23-Oct-2022 19:21

thermonuclear:

Conway looks like he is back in top form after being a little inconsistent by his own high standards earlier in the year.

A little inconsistent for him I can live with. Compare to Guppy. Guppy had his day, its over. Id like Guppy back, down the order. he cannot be an opener AND bat freely, so bat him down, and he can go hard. Kiwi cricket is more conservative than Trump

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#2986973 23-Oct-2022 19:24

Dochart:

I was surprised with NZ dropping Guptill. I have been waiting a long time for this to happen. I think having Allen and Conway as our openers for T20i is the best for the Blackcaps.

I was too, NZ Cricket plays players to retirement. Kane needs ro go OR bat him down. We don't need a test/ODI batsman at 1-2-3. he can score a RR, but not in 1-2-3 in T20. T20 is frenetic, Kane isnt.

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Dochart

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#2986979 23-Oct-2022 19:43

tdgeek:
Dochart:

I was surprised with NZ dropping Guptill. I have been waiting a long time for this to happen. I think having Allen and Conway as our openers for T20i is the best for the Blackcaps.

I was too, NZ Cricket plays players to retirement. Kane needs ro go OR bat him down. We don't need a test/ODI batsman at 1-2-3. he can score a RR, but not in 1-2-3 in T20. T20 is frenetic, Kane isnt.

Who would you put at No 3 if Williamson wasn’t in the team. Daryl Mitchell would be perfect at No 3. Has played that role in the Super Smash perfectly.

There have been times Williamson has had good innings in T20 cricket but last night should have come in later after Allen got out. That was the time where we should have continued keeping up the same run rate as Allen before he got out.

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#2987090 24-Oct-2022 08:14

Dochart: Who would you put at No 3 if Williamson wasn’t in the team. Daryl Mitchell would be perfect at No 3. Has played that role in the Super Smash perfectly.

There have been times Williamson has had good innings in T20 cricket but last night should have come in later after Allen got out. That was the time where we should have continued keeping up the same run rate as Allen before he got out.

Id bat him further down, so he doesnt come in with first priority of not going out, id rather he came in to get his eye in with two balls then bat. he bats very very well, but we need to remove the must stay in mentality. Or he stays at 3 and bats T20 style from the get go. I know he can bat conservatively then make it up, but in T20 the clocks ticking

artbloke

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#2987309 24-Oct-2022 12:34

tdgeek:
artbloke:

This time we managed to keep the foot on the throat against Aussie... unlike those awful bloody matches against t hem in the Chappell-Hadlee Series.

Yep but bear in mind that 200 is an excellent score, that adds pressure before they face a ball and that almost half our score was from one player. I’d be prefer our batters rolled out 30’s and 40’s with monotonous regularity

Key to us getting 200 was Allen's flying start, took the pressure off Conway & our other batsmen coming in - Aussie only needed one of their openers to fire like Allen & they would've been right in the match - but we bowled well in partnerships from the start keeping the pressure on throughout the whole innings.
We basically butchered those first two matches in the C/H ODI Series.

Dochart

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#2987318 24-Oct-2022 13:49

I wonder if we had opened with Allen at the start of the ODI series whether it would have made much of a difference. 2 out 3 of those games where we could have won the series against Aus.

I’m glad they are letting Allen have a chance in both ODI and T20i. Guptill international career is finish.

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