27-4 needing 394. This batting display is painful to watch. Someone had better step up to the mark.

k1w1k1d:

 

27-4 needing 394. This batting display is painful to watch. Someone had better step up to the mark.

 

Im a Blackcaps and Kiwi fan, but we have lost players, and we can fold. The headline rampant ENG has played out as expected. Pity we are not at full strength, but thats sport

5 down, looks like this could be over tonight.

tdgeek:

 

Im a Blackcaps and Kiwi fan, but we have lost players, and we can fold. The headline rampant ENG has played out as expected. Pity we are not at full strength, but thats sport

 

Exactly. Bit of a dissapointment in the top order it has to be said. But Broad was superior. NZ under lights is always suspect. But, even with not being full strength I saw some positives in the 2 new recruits bending the back, mid 140s, KJ can do the same, I hope Ben Sears gets a crack. It will take time to turn around this bowling squad, happens to all countries with aging golden era teams. That 140 in 20 overs when Eng took Wagner on was incredible, but the straw that ....

Cant wait for the day test, where I expect our batting to fair better, but Eng still have the superior mindset thanks to the kiwis Baz and Stokes :-)

TeaLeaf:

 

 

 

Exactly. Bit of a dissapointment in the top order it has to be said. But Broad was superior. NZ under lights is always suspect. But, even with not being full strength I saw some positives in the 2 new recruits bending the back, mid 140s, KJ can do the same, I hope Ben Sears gets a crack. It will take time to turn around this bowling squad, happens to all countries with aging golden era teams. That 140 in 20 overs when Eng took Wagner on was incredible, but the straw that ....

 

Cant wait for the day test, where I expect our batting to fair better, but Eng still have the superior mindset thanks to the kiwis Baz and Stokes :-)

 

There is no secret. Why dont we do that? Ive played competitive sport in the past, its easier to play freely. More consistent, you get into the groove. If however, you play conservative, you manually control your play, hold it back, thats when issues happen as you are playing an artificial level of play

If you can bat with skill, use it. As long as its not reckless, you will maximise your score. Yes you will go out, but just as or more likely to go out when your mind is messing with artificially holding yourself back. Or when the team have stalled so you start making up for it by trying to make 4's happen. Elite sport, they all have high skill, it often becomes whats between the ears. How can I watch an ATP match, player A is all over player B. I make a coffee, come back, and Player A now cannot buy a point. The skill hasnt suddenly failed, its between the ears.

tdgeek:

 

There is no secret. Why dont we do that?

 

I totally agree, and no idea given NZ has some tonkers with positive mind sets. To be fair, watching the Test live, this BazBall is something never seen before in red ball, not the entire of a test that is. 

I'd like to see Glenn Phillips with a go, he has played 1 test with a 50 on debut, he is exactly the sort of player you need to play a similar mentality. Nicholls is our only player in the top 6 with avg below 40 with a number of them 50+ currently. Put Phillips in at 5. Another player I mentioned who I am positive will make the team is Foxcroft.

ie Latham, Conway, Kane, Mitchell, Foxcroft, Phillips, Blundell, KJ, Kuger, Wagner/Sears, Southee. That is 4 pace, 2 spin and 9 batsmen who can play with similar style to "BazBall" and likely avg 40+ to #7. Something like that, you definitely need mid-lower order who can hold a bat. 

Was only a matter of time before somebody tried this, some have been saying for a long time to move tests to 4 days, in an attempt to get the crowds in. This will do a lot more for getting crowds in than pink ball night cricket could ever hope to do. 

The pink ball is just not fit for purpose. 0.3 degrees more movement under lights is a lot in cricket. You still need accurate bowlers though, hitting a tissue on a length like Anderson, consistently, allowing the seam to do the work (bolt upright ala Hadlee/McGrath stuff).

Adapt and thrive. NZ dont have to mimic Eng, but as you say, positive but not reckless, will likely reap 4rpo+ without changing a heck of a lot. 

Dochart: This playing 11 ain’t it.

Next test in Wellington bring back Will Young and Glenn Phillips back into the test side.

1. Latham
2. Conway
3. Williamson
4. Young
5. Phillips
6. Mitchell
7. Blundell (wk)
8. M Bracewell
9. Scott/Tickner
10. Southee
11. Wagner

Love it, spot on. Poor Youngy should have stayed a #4, it almost feels like he is mixed up now. Phillips for me is getting well over due for a lengthy shot in Tests, he could be our version of a Harry Brook. You look at that list and every one of them can hold their own in white ball too, so 4rpo is not unrealistic. In pink ball you really have to take any day time batting that you get (if you get) like its an ODI, well played Eng and Baz in this regard. 

Its a hard choice Scott or Blair as both really did impress for me in periods, but id take Kugers for his batting. But Ben Sears at 25yo must be knocking on the door, FC avg currently 24 is well ahead of the 35avg both Scott and Blair have with the ball. With an aging team, every bowler in the current squad is 30yo+. KJ is deeply missed with that ability to surprise bumper off a length that has taken so many wickets around the spice/handle/glove.  

Dochart: Having both Ben Sears and KJ in the test team would be a lethal bowling lineup. Too bad they are injured.

Glenn Phillips could be our Harry Brook. To think HB having a FC batting average of 38 but so far doing well in test cricket could happen to GP if given a chance.

NZ needs to get rid of their conservative approach and be more attacking. I don’t mind if the players get out to attacking shots but to see them get out from defending is not okay.

Again couldnt agree more, especially given the majority of the team are also classy white ball players with plenty of power. Instead of an edge going to slips it goes over the boundary so often when attacking.

Yes, is a real shame re Sears and KJ at the same time as Boult chosing not to take another NZC contract, although I still think it was a bit silly not to select him regardless, as he was available. NZC need to wake up to the fact some of our elite players want to earn elite money before they retire and that means other leagues. I thought we would have learnt our lesson after early days IPL and Shane Bond. 

Harry Brook is the shining example of what playing to your strengths on offense can do.

I just cant stomach Nicholls any longer, especially given we need to start giving youth a go. We have no batsmen below 30yo and no bowlers either, luckily some got their chance late and will hopefully want to keep playing as long as they can.

TeaLeaf:

 

I totally agree, and no idea given NZ has some tonkers with positive mind sets. To be fair, watching the Test live, this BazBall is something never seen before in red ball, not the entire of a test that is. 

 

I'd like to see Glenn Phillips with a go, he has played 1 test with a 50 on debut, he is exactly the sort of player you need to play a similar mentality. Nicholls is our only player in the top 6 with avg below 40 with a number of them 50+ currently. Put Phillips in at 5. Another player I mentioned who I am positive will make the team is Foxcroft.

 

ie Latham, Conway, Kane, Mitchell, Foxcroft, Phillips, Blundell, KJ, Kuger, Wagner/Sears, Southee. That is 4 pace, 2 spin and 9 batsmen who can play with similar style to "BazBall" and likely avg 40+ to #7. Something like that, you definitely need mid-lower order who can hold a bat. 

 

Was only a matter of time before somebody tried this, some have been saying for a long time to move tests to 4 days, in an attempt to get the crowds in. This will do a lot more for getting crowds in than pink ball night cricket could ever hope to do. 

 

The pink ball is just not fit for purpose. 0.3 degrees more movement under lights is a lot in cricket. You still need accurate bowlers though, hitting a tissue on a length like Anderson, consistently, allowing the seam to do the work (bolt upright ala Hadlee/McGrath stuff).

 

Adapt and thrive. NZ dont have to mimic Eng, but as you say, positive but not reckless, will likely reap 4rpo+ without changing a heck of a lot. 

 

Yep. In the past we got to the final. Baz was out VERY early. We  lost to AUS , doesnt matter. "Follow the the process, the score will look after itself" In a one off final, yes thats different. I watch a LOT of golf. The guy/gal thats led throughout after 54 holes (3 days of 4) They are 4+ shots ahead so an easy win. Rarely happens. Between the Ears Syndrome. Same in all sport.

Southee denies there is a gulf between ENG and NZ

There is

Understandably, Tim Southee and the Black Caps will be pleased to put the day-night game behind them and return to “traditional test cricket”.

The problem for them is, England don't play traditional test cricket.

Like I said earlier there is no secret. I watched a while back an ATP match between Roger Federer and a guy that was rated about 100. The guy won. How can that happen? Answer is what Ive alluded to earlier. 

This sums it up pretty well. Southee acknowledging his/teams tactics sucked in use the night to bowl and to bat ODI style during the day, ie Pink ball strategy, for me that sums it up. If you get Sears and KJ in the team and apply this, along with Foxycroft and Phillips going bananas in the middle order, we will be a lot more solid. But it just annoys me Southee couldnt see this before the toss of the coin let alone only by the final days, it astounds me. I want Kane back captaining tests. He knows whats up strategy wise. Shouldnt have taken this many pink ball tests to figure out its not the same game as a Daytime Test, so different tactics should obviously apply. Sigh. I think we should start to rebound a bit in 2025.

First loss to Eng in NZ since 2008. But Im happy with the Test teams provided they do make these obvious selections/changes to the team.

NZ v Eng, 1st Test 2022-23 - Ben Stokes 'blessed' by England's bowlers as floodlight strategy pays rich dividends | ESPNcricinfo

It seems to me that we have just come past the end of a Purple Patch, or even a Golden Age for NZ Test Cricket, and that we are now drifting back towards our 'natural' level.

But what is that?
Oh Geekzone cricket gurus, what should we be happy to accept as NZ's "normal" position in the world Test cricket hierarchy?

Should we be happy to accept 4th, 5th, or 6th?

Are we natural competitors with Sri Lanka & Pakistan, behind Australia, England, India and South Africa?
Should we confidently rank ahead of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh? Will the poor old Windies languish for ever?

?

PolicyGuy:

 

It seems to me that we have just come past the end of a Purple Patch, or even a Golden Age for NZ Test Cricket, and that we are now drifting back towards our 'natural' level.

 

But what is that?
Oh Geekzone cricket gurus, what should we be happy to accept as NZ's "normal" position in the world Test cricket hierarchy?

 

Should we be happy to accept 4th, 5th, or 6th?

 

Are we natural competitors with Sri Lanka & Pakistan, behind Australia, England, India and South Africa?
Should we confidently rank ahead of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh? Will the poor old Windies languish for ever?

 

?

 

We can punch above our weight, but we choke, and its not the only sport. Between the ears issue, not a skill issue