Formula1 2019

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Master Geek
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#2267672 1-Jul-2019 10:26

GV27:

To be fair it's as much a routine thing too. The race isn't available to watch when I would normally have gotten up to watch it pre-recorded on Sky and there isn't enough time in the evening to sit down and watch a full race that I already know the result of.

If it wasn't for Schumacher the Younger in F2 and the Kiwis in F3 I would have abandoned ship a month or so ago.

What time are you getting up? I get up between 5am-6am and its available then. I only had to wait 30min for one of the earlier GPs. I don't remember which one.

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#2267707 1-Jul-2019 11:30

niallm90:

GV27:

To be fair it's as much a routine thing too. The race isn't available to watch when I would normally have gotten up to watch it pre-recorded on Sky and there isn't enough time in the evening to sit down and watch a full race that I already know the result of.

If it wasn't for Schumacher the Younger in F2 and the Kiwis in F3 I would have abandoned ship a month or so ago.

What time are you getting up? I get up between 5am-6am and its available then. I only had to wait 30min for one of the earlier GPs. I don't remember which one.

I'm up at 545am most days. I mean I'd have said I was a fan, but not at 4:00am 😅

tdgeek

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#2268007 1-Jul-2019 21:09

Batman:

Vettel-Hamilton and LeClerc-Vestappen they are kind of different incidents, but both going against the red cars

1. VvH: Vettel ran wide and rejoined the track against the rules causing Hamilton to not be able to pass

2. LvV: Vestappen forced his car beside LeClerc then forced LeClerc off the track to disallow LeClerc to repass

1. A mistake was made and the rules were not followed (rejoin in a safe manner), there is little one can argue as the rules are pretty clear here, and as much as I would have liked Hamilton not to win (I don't care who it is, as long as Hamilton doesn't run away with the title, I'm a kinda cheer for the underdog type - makes my family mad when I cheer on the poor Wallabies vs ABs)

2. Vestappen does a signature Ricciardo move and dives inside alongside another car and stops them from turning in. Normally you would allow the other car space to "come back at you" when they eventually turn beside you. Usually because their turn is less sharp they will get a much better drive off and then repass, unless you're Ricciardo. But Vestappen did not allow LeClerc any space to turn beside him, using the excuse he could not make the turn himself which is bullsheet. I don't know what the rules are here but it appears a "mistake" may have been made in that case. So the next thing you need to look at is who is ahead at the time, if you're ahead you're entitled to the corner and the other guy just has to submit. I'm sure the videos will tell in due course. Just keep an eye out on youtube.

1. I assume if you have no control of the car that's a penalty?

2. I was cheering for both, but it was a penalty on Max. They were equal, wheels were alongside, no one owned the corner. He proceeded to continue his line which was a closing wedge. He should have left room, then see who wins the corner. If you watch the Dalsy attempts, Kimi shut the door, but he was in front it was his corner. the stewards say Max had the inside line. So what? He was not ahead. Charles had the outside line he was also not ahead. No one owned the corner so its a penalty.

I get sick of people saying, as Di Resta did, Max drove so well, its unfair to lose the race, even though he could not choose. Austria, Orange, Max, Stewards..........tere is the answer. + Dont what another disputed decision, play safe, and ran away, thats what the stewards did.

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#2268009 1-Jul-2019 21:11

Actually you can say Max made a mistake. He didn't turn and push Charles, so as he could not attempt the pass (that was never made) he was too hot and was unable to leave room. A mistake

If I was driving now, I'd have no clue what is allowed. It seems if you try a pass, dont get past, but just get equal, you can run him into a wall.

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#2268011 1-Jul-2019 21:15

GV27:

niallm90:

GV27:

To be fair it's as much a routine thing too. The race isn't available to watch when I would normally have gotten up to watch it pre-recorded on Sky and there isn't enough time in the evening to sit down and watch a full race that I already know the result of.

If it wasn't for Schumacher the Younger in F2 and the Kiwis in F3 I would have abandoned ship a month or so ago.

What time are you getting up? I get up between 5am-6am and its available then. I only had to wait 30min for one of the earlier GPs. I don't remember which one.

I'm up at 545am most days. I mean I'd have said I was a fan, but not at 4:00am 😅

Im up at 6 but I watch Monday night so I can watch most of the pre race.

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#2268015 1-Jul-2019 21:23

Gasly has to go. Might be a long Summer holiday. Was lapped by his team mate. 68 seconds behind more or less

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#2268016 1-Jul-2019 21:25

niallm90:

Verstappen had the racing line at that point.

How do you make that call? No one was in front or behinds, those two front wheels were aligned.

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#2268025 1-Jul-2019 21:38

GV27:

So nothing unexpected here. We now can be sure there is an edict that where a red car can be penalised, it will be, and where anyone else does anything questionable to a red car, they will get off scott-free.

Simple. Unfortunately I've had enough and will cancel my sub this afternoon - even though the F2 race was a blast, F1 is too frustrating these days.

I see it that Lewis is favoured, Max is favoured. Today, its MORE that it will be unpopular, so the stewards can hide. It was a Max day no one wants to harm that, or scared to harm that

Re F1, I watch to for Charles, Max and a few others. the Constructor titles are already decided. Drivers titles are a joke, so I watch what I enjoy, within the race. F2 and F3 are good watches

niallm90

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#2268044 1-Jul-2019 22:42

tdgeek:
niallm90:

Verstappen had the racing line at that point.

How do you make that call? No one was in front or behinds, those two front wheels were aligned.

I suppose I'm not too keen on the strategy to be honest but I don't want to see it start being punished without them coming out and saying it's not alowed now beforehand.

The Mercedes were at it every few weekend in 2014 as well as numerous others in 2017.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

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#2268136 2-Jul-2019 07:20

"The guiding principle is that the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit."

The cars were level. When the wheels touched (the incident) the tyres were exactly level. The driver on the outside has a claim to that line. the driver on the inside needs to respect that claim, but Max ran him off by maintaining his line

GV27

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#2268166 2-Jul-2019 07:53

tdgeek:

"The guiding principle is that the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit."

The cars were level. When the wheels touched (the incident) the tyres were exactly level. The driver on the outside has a claim to that line. the driver on the inside needs to respect that claim, but Max ran him off by maintaining his line

I also don't buy this; what's to stop me from steaming into a corner with far too much speed and just straightlining the other driver off? You'll be ahead, but you wouldn't have made the corner without bumping the other driver.

If that is how the rule is applied, there's no reason at all to take the other car into consideration, other than just making sure you damage him more than he damages you.

Very frustrating given how deeply the stewards reached into the 'BUT SAFETY' bag to ping Vettel at Canada.

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#2268170 2-Jul-2019 08:11

Moreover, the attacker should not have achieved this position by carrying too much speed to make the corner — this method is called dive-bombing.

That's covered.

The rules need to be simplified. Hamilton is favoured, Max is favoured yesterday, Schumacher and Senna were allowed to be bullies. Stewards too scared to penalise Max. Too much bias. Commentators are biased, so ignore them, same for teams and drivers, and same for stewards.

niallm90

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#2268223 2-Jul-2019 08:38

tdgeek:

"The guiding principle is that the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit."

The cars were level. When the wheels touched (the incident) the tyres were exactly level. The driver on the outside has a claim to that line. the driver on the inside needs to respect that claim, but Max ran him off by maintaining his line

Let me clarify my position. Having re-watched it since my first claim I now think that it more grey than I first claimed. I totally think its a bad move, I just think that its part of the sport. I don't recall them handing out penalties for any of the previous events that are similar. For them to start giving out penalties without a declaration to the drivers would be very disappointing. I think we should have less penalties in the sport not more, punish obvious egregious errors - not things that sit in the grey area.

While I am also in support of enforcing track limits. I wouldn't be happy if they just started giving out 5s penalties during a race without communicating with the change with the drivers before the race.

GV27:

I also don't buy this; what's to stop me from steaming into a corner with far too much speed and just straightlining the other driver off? You'll be ahead, but you wouldn't have made the corner without bumping the other driver.

If that is how the rule is applied, there's no reason at all to take the other car into consideration, other than just making sure you damage him more than he damages you.

Very frustrating given how deeply the stewards reached into the 'BUT SAFETY' bag to ping Vettel at Canada.

I also agree that the incident in Canada 2019 was the wrong decision given that is not really what the rules was for. You wouldn't give Kubica a penalty for this unsafe re-entry in Canada (09?) before the chicane. When your out of control there isn't much you can do. Turning to Austria, I think we should be mindful that if the drivers aren't doing it every overtake there is probably good reason, probably because of the risk involved.

Final note. We know the stewards take the drivers into account as they appeared to get less tolerant of Vestappen and Grosjean in their early days awarding more serious penalties the more they where offending. I'm sure the stewards do their best but bias can be subconscious. Preferences aside it can be easy to try to redress a previous action when judging a separate issue. I have often through it would be great if we could remove all identifying features from the cars before letting the stewards see the footage. i.e. show them an computer rendered simulation or the footage with the cars made pure white. Hopefully then people could no longer claim the stewards are biased, though I'm sure some people always will.

tdgeek

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#2268229 2-Jul-2019 08:46

niallm90:

tdgeek:

"The guiding principle is that the driver on the outside should be at least level (front axle in line with front axle) with the driver on the inside to have a claim to the racing line on corner exit."

The cars were level. When the wheels touched (the incident) the tyres were exactly level. The driver on the outside has a claim to that line. the driver on the inside needs to respect that claim, but Max ran him off by maintaining his line

Let me clarify my position. Having re-watched it since my first claim I now think that it more grey than I first claimed. I totally think its a bad move, I just think that its part of the sport. I don't recall them handing out penalties for any of the previous events that are similar. For them to start giving out penalties without a declaration to the drivers would be very disappointing. I think we should have less penalties in the sport not more, punish obvious egregious errors - not things that sit in the grey area.

While I am also in support of enforcing track limits. I wouldn't be happy if they just started giving out 5s penalties during a race without communicating with the change with the drivers before the race.

Not clear to me what you are saying. Max penalty or not?

niallm90

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Master Geek
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#2268231 2-Jul-2019 08:49

tdgeek:

Not clear to me what you are saying. Max penalty or not?

Sorry, lol. Trying to clarify and I missed perhaps the most important point. No penalty. I think to give one would be to change the interpretation and implementation of the rules and I don't think that should be done without prior communication with all parties.

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