What are the warriors doing with their line up?

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#1537164 21-Apr-2016 08:28

And the obvious happens.

RTS out for the season, bad luck champ.

Mcfadden shoves poor Lolohea back to FB. So darn frustrating. We looked awesome with him at 6 and Johnson 7. Why not Wright to FB? Hes played it and done well before. Hes our tallest player. You put one of our smallest potential super stars in a position to take dangerous collisions, Im just wondering how serious they are.

I can see what will happen next year or year after, fusitua will leave due to a much better offer, Tui will get offered some really good deal that hes worth at 6 and we will be left with a player with a suspect knee at FB, we will have what I think are 4 aus players that were terrible purchases and an assistant coach playing head coach still. That would be warriors luck.

Hey instead of buying 4 really average aussie players, what if we had kept a supremely talented FB out of NYC. Hmmm no thats just too logical, instead grow your talent then let them go and pay big bucks for talent from elsewhere who then to no fault of their own gets an injury an we no longer have our home grown talent to back him up/learn from him.

Oh well, as a real warrior fan puts it, theres always next decade.

:-( (hurting and frustrated)

Prayers and best wishes with the family of our Teams doc. :-(

TeaLeaf

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#1537381 21-Apr-2016 12:23

Good news, it appears they are keeping Magic at 7 and using Thomas at 6. Thats my second preferred option.

Wright is on the bench and Manu is returning. Id be putting Wright at FB and putting Lolohea at 6. Perhaps they may do that at some point during the game. The last thing we want is Lolohea getting hurt having to play FB.

https://matchcentre.nrl.com/match/2016/111/20161110880/#team-lists

Looks like Hurrell has been dropped to second grade. What a waste of talent, especially now hes got the profesionallity levels up and is fit and trim.

Id bench Hurrell and use him as either impact center interchange or as a forward like they tried last game. I think Ayshford doesnt offer us enough on that side and his defense was suspect the first few games, I do like him overall. I just think Hurrell in centre starting and then Ayshford as either centre or lock on the bench is a more dynamic team.

All is not lost, providing SJ stays at 7 and hopefully some how Tui gets back into 6.

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#1537479 21-Apr-2016 14:00

Lolohea said at the beginning of the season he'd love to play in the spine - either at 6 or, ideally, at 1.

He did brilliantly there against the doggies so chillax - he'll be fine. We get the best of both worlds with him being able to come in anywhere on the field and Tommy providing some stability for SJ, though not the rigidity we get with Robson.

Gutted for RTS but it's not all bad.

E + R = O

MikeAqua

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#1537514 21-Apr-2016 14:47

Deck chairs. Titanic.

Mike

TeaLeaf

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#1537943 22-Apr-2016 10:05

but he is a 6 and that is where he plays best. plus im concerned about him contesting the high ball with his height. i know he does a good job anywhere he plays, but he plays best side stepping the front line and either creating a try or a try assist.

but i agree, thomas does a reasonable job at 6 and johnson at 7 we are back to him being on form 3 try assists last week. LEAP frogged to 382 fantasy points vs his prior dismal efforts at 6, or lack of ball i should say.

yeah poor RTS, really wanted to play for his home country and gets an ACL early in his career. could be worse think of poor billy slater.

imagine if more elite kiwi players wanted to play for nz club. SBW returns to the warriors (I always thought that would happen but doesnt seem it will), Taupau signs with the warriors (hes my number 1 player id sign), at the moment foran would be handy. but in reality the money we have wasted on 4 players no other clubs wanted would only buy 1-2 good kiwis. but then again thats all we really need. i see no weakness in our back line fully fit and if crappy would play hurrell. i think what we lack is defense and sinking into a pit of hopelessness when quick points are scored against us. we really dont need offensive training, we need the Wane Benz defensive playbook that he stated he wont move on to offense until all the team has that down which took 3/4 of a season supposedly. might take a whole season at warriors.

number 2 on tries and total offense before last round yet were number 13 on the chart and i think worst defense. its not hard where cappy needs to work on. but i dont think he has the skill set. toovey might. hasler would. bellamy does. benz does. trent robinson does.

good news it seems on Doc too posted on Warriors FB. hopefully full recovery. im not sure if he still does the ABs?

nicnzl

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#1538435 22-Apr-2016 21:29

Darren Lockyer didn't do too badly at fullback given his heignt for the first half of his career, before moving into stand off later on. I can see Tui doing equally as well.

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TeaLeaf

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#1538574 23-Apr-2016 10:42

i just had this shudder someone was going to mention DL. DL was a FB moving to half not a half moving to FB. huge difference. not really comparable unless you have never played either.

im not saying Tui wont handle it, he will, Im saying its not our best option holistically. SJ +Tui = a potent and massively offensive GF worthy backline. SJ at 6 or SJ + a make shift 6 = meh. Look how badly the warriors played before chad got up to speed.

Hopefully kata and manu continue to hit it up for Tui.

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#1540926 23-Apr-2016 23:16

TeaLeaf:

i just had this shudder someone was going to mention DL. DL was a FB moving to half not a half moving to FB. huge difference. not really comparable unless you have never played either.

I think you'll find Lockyer played his first couple of seasons at the Broncos predominantly at stand off or as a utility player, before being moved to FB permanently in 1997, performing so well he stayed there for several years. Not exactly a 'FB moving to half'.

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#1541119 24-Apr-2016 13:20

fair point. but you have to acknowledge how lethal the potential potency of the tui and shaun together is, is a greater draw than playing tui at FB because he can do the job. Hes not our only player who can play FB.

either way, i dont feel Mcfadden has the offensive playbook or even knowledge that Wayne Bennett did to make Tui effective in the line the way Benz has Lockyer chiming in.

im not arguing Tui wont excel at FB, im more saying his potential at 6 far out ways getting the job done at FB.

do you remember Lockyers internatonal debut, totally irrelevant but we all thought this guys a dud, how wrong did that turn out to be haha.

if only Thurston has chosen kiwis over playing for SoO and Roos. Can blame him obviously. I mean we are fine now but he would have had a massive influence for the kiwis prior linking for Stacey and SJ.

I think the warriors are in far better state than id feared. Manu is back. So him and Kata will hit the ball up for Tui. We have a good starting pack and a good bench. Really even without RTS there is no reason outside "desire" and "coaching" we shouldnt make the 4.

Geeze the doggies are up and down, nearly losing to titans with a field goal victory. Raiders are hitting their straps finally. I thuoght they would be top 4 with the addition of sezer. Same problem as warriors, plenty of offense but nothing in defense. 7 rounds in and the warriors already have 180 against them vs the broncos 81. I think the comments regarding the club not being run by football heads makes sense when our level of defense isnt even discussed. Only so much JM can do, its up to the head coach to make it a priority over a "part" of training.

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#1542037 26-Apr-2016 11:02

Storm dead ahead ... no wait that's not a Storm it's an iceberg.

Mike

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#1542170 26-Apr-2016 13:19

Abysmal showing on Anzac day. Hard to believe these are people PAID to play.

There is something ROTTEN at the Warriors. It's been there for years. It was even there the year they made the final. They don't seem to be able to cope mentally.

Sacking McFadden doesn't seem like the answer, but keeping him doesn't seem the answer either. I think some of these players need to be sacked to make an example of them, but again, fear is no way to lead a time long term either.

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TeaLeaf

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#1542398 26-Apr-2016 19:46

Id hate to say it "but i told you so". Sticking a barely physically developed half into FB = injury. There goes another one of our top 3 players. All because the coach is too stupid to play wright or fusitua at FB.

Id say sacking Mcfadden is only part of the answer, Id say a large portion above him have little footy knowledge as that article suggested.

This is the warriors playbooks.

Defense.

1; Let the players run around you, through you and over you on the try line without attempting a tackle and most importantly no line speed to get to them before they eat more metres than you stop.

Offense.

1;Hit it up for 5m per hit up for 5 tackles, kick the ball out or in the middle of the 20m.

The above shows the coaching problem side of things. We dont have players in motion and we dont tactically change to the opposition.

As an example, the Storm changed their offense simply by out flanking us, maybe 1 or 2 max settler hit up and then the ball was spun wide knowing how compressed our defense was.

We dont run players in motion. Dont blame Johnson for being a bad 7 when he had nobody to assist a try to. You cant fool an opposition if you just run the ball up then kick it.

Now defense, line speed is the number 1 problem, the 2nd is technique, the 3rd we dont seem to know our positions in the defensive line. 4th Id say we dont know how to adapt our defense from compressed to spread.

I honestly dont know if NZ will ever expect from the warriors like they do the All Blacks, but thats the only way we will ever have the desire to win the NRL. Because in Aus, they have desire, its their sport. We dont. So we need to have another motivation and that is public expectation.

I feel sorry for Cappy. I just dont feel he is the quality of coach we need to win premierships. The warriors really badly need Wayne Benz, but thats not going to happen.

Id have been more tempted to put Johnson to 7 than Tui, but its too late now. I hope Tui isnt out long and we can at least make the 8 and start again in 2017.

But for now.

1. Defense, line speed is cirtical.

2. Offense, players in motion to give an elite half ingredients to make some magic.

TeaLeaf

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#1542736 27-Apr-2016 13:02

One of my most respected warriors Thomas, " What we dished up wasnt nrl standard".

I dont remember him being the main culprit but with that many missed tackles Im presuming every player missed one.

That first try, I think it was Lisone missed the read and left Johnson on the inside. Johnson was still touching the player as he scored if I remember. Does that count as a missed tackle against him?

The thing is I dont think the warriors have ever had a coach who has an NRL top 4 defense standard.

Line speed is what scares me the most, we just sit there and wait for them to get 10m, then if they can they offload and take another 20m. NRL standard I would think would be the opposition gets no more than 10m per tackle.

The reason the warriors were outflanked was because of line speed, we didnt have the ball shut down before it was out on the wing and our wingers having to run back out to the wing.

Wayne Benz takes not even a whole season to turn an entire team from nobodies into super stars. Mcfadden takes 7 rounds to take super stars into nobodies. I know thats harsh and I feel for him because its not all his fault. But I just dont think hes NRL 1st grade coach yet, when you have no defensive line speed or players in motion in offense, it pretty much says you play old school hit it up, make your completions and thats all. NRL standard is WAY above that.

For once in our 21 years we need to stop looking at how many points we can score and worry ONLY about how many point we can stop. Id rather lose by 6-0 every game than get beaten 42-0 and win 1/3 of our games in a season. 6-0 means the club is now ready to unleash its offense.

I hope he can turn it round and hes not the first person to be put in such a difficult position. Lolohea last season was every single game.

I really appreciate what Watson has done for the club financially. But to be honest I think bums on seats will dissapear and running it as just a business wont work anymore. I think we need more psychological marketing behind the warriors, our team. Why should we care if they win a premiership? What does it mean to aussies that it doesnt mean to kiwis? How can we change that mentality?

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#1542742 27-Apr-2016 13:15

TeaLeaf:

Id hate to say it "but i told you so". Sticking a barely physically developed half into FB = injury. There goes another one of our top 3 players. All because the coach is too stupid to play wright or fusitua at FB.

Id say sacking Mcfadden is only part of the answer, Id say a large portion above him have little footy knowledge as that article suggested.

This is the warriors playbooks.

Defense.

1; Let the players run around you, through you and over you on the try line without attempting a tackle and most importantly no line speed to get to them before they eat more metres than you stop.

Offense.

1;Hit it up for 5m per hit up for 5 tackles, kick the ball out or in the middle of the 20m.

The above shows the coaching problem side of things. We dont have players in motion and we dont tactically change to the opposition.

As an example, the Storm changed their offense simply by out flanking us, maybe 1 or 2 max settler hit up and then the ball was spun wide knowing how compressed our defense was.

We dont run players in motion. Dont blame Johnson for being a bad 7 when he had nobody to assist a try to. You cant fool an opposition if you just run the ball up then kick it.

Now defense, line speed is the number 1 problem, the 2nd is technique, the 3rd we dont seem to know our positions in the defensive line. 4th Id say we dont know how to adapt our defense from compressed to spread.

I honestly dont know if NZ will ever expect from the warriors like they do the All Blacks, but thats the only way we will ever have the desire to win the NRL. Because in Aus, they have desire, its their sport. We dont. So we need to have another motivation and that is public expectation.

I feel sorry for Cappy. I just dont feel he is the quality of coach we need to win premierships. The warriors really badly need Wayne Benz, but thats not going to happen.

Id have been more tempted to put Johnson to 7 than Tui, but its too late now. I hope Tui isnt out long and we can at least make the 8 and start again in 2017.

But for now.

1. Defense, line speed is cirtical.

2. Offense, players in motion to give an elite half ingredients to make some magic.

Going through all your points. Mostly wrong..

1: You cant predict injuries, even the bigger players in the game get injured.

2: GL with Jono Wright as FB. Doesn't pass, not much speed, has no X-Factor

3: Of course, because it was the coach that missed all those tackles, and left massive holes you could fit a jet through.

4: If you think that is the Warriors playbook, you need to do research.

5: The Storm were beating us in the middle of the park. Thats down to our forwards mostly.

6: Why do we need Wayne Bennet? There are other great coaches in the game...

7: Johnson is the HB, #7. Not sure what you mean?

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#1543480 28-Apr-2016 15:59

You have lost me a little but nice to have a differing opinion. Never said we need Wayne, we need a coach who can coach NRL premiership level football. One who is defense focused first and offense second.

By the way you can say in your opinion Im wrong.

But I think you are wrong when I say;

1. Defense, line speed is cirtical.

2. Offense, players in motion to give an elite half ingredients to make some magic.

Re missed tackles I do put that on coaching. Its always been a warriors weakness. We dont have the desire to defend our 10m like the best sides do and we never have. So why isnt a coach focussing on this almost 100%. The reason I raised Wayne Benz is because that is what he stated he does and he doesnt move from defense to offense until the whole team has it.

I think you are wrong saying we were only beaten up the middle. That was going to be obvious where they were strong, I looked at their pre game fantasy points and 6 of their forwards had more points than our best player. So clearly they are running up the middle. But their lack of offense hasnt won them games this year its been their defense. Until playing us they were one of the lowest scoring teams but on of the best defensive. But what I was saying is our team didnt know when to move from compressed to spread defense and because of our lack of line speed, they out flanked us plenty of times for tries. The scored everywhere but for the same reasons.

Good news though with Shaun Lane being named to play. Exactly the kind of forwards we need, mannering likes. But hes a bit faster Shaun I think. Instead of buying old has beens, hoffman, robson etc, we need that fast athletic type forward. Thats why I think manu could have been a lock. Almost identical to lane, just faster. Im not a fan of props as they dont put in the minutes needed especially now with this new interchange rulings. We need at least 60mins per player. So I think that means more lock like players, even big centres. Ayshford is a good example. He can play lock. Thats part of where we will get line speed. The other is coaching. We cant sit on our 10m and wait for them to get to us, thats just NRL level football. And that is a coaching issue imo. Yes the players missed the tackles, but they arent being coached to get to the players fast enough. I think Toovey would be a good pick for the Warriors.

As for being wrong on using wright as the FB, why? Why do we need X factor catching and hitting the ball up? And you can predict injuries putting a small framed half who is only just past growth phase into FB position. IMO thats just a bad move when he could have had more impact at 6.

Id like to see Wells be given a shot at the back. We didnt buy him just to play res grade, I thought he WAS our FB back up.

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