What are the warriors doing with their line up?

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#1543904 29-Apr-2016 10:52

6 players axed.

Im not sure he got them all.

Still think he should have gone wwith Henare Wells our reserve grade. As amazing as Fus is at wing and finishing tries, Im sure Ive seen him botch up at FB before. Also even after 6 axings, Konrad doesnt get a shot. Definitely beef there.

https://matchcentre.nrl.com/match/2016/111/20161110960/#team-lists

Oh this is why Konrad not playing, they went out on the town during the week I presume, I guess doesnt look good after what I think is their worst game ever.

Players stood down

Finch

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#1543973 29-Apr-2016 11:59

Yeah. But let's still sack the coach right?

Told you it was the players not the coach.

Hoofhaarted

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#1543983 29-Apr-2016 12:27

Hopefully the result on ANZAC days is the Warriors all out for 44 before lunch on Day 1 of a test match.

After a result like that, everyone needs to sit down, and decide as a team how they want to go forward.

After that result for the Black Caps, they came up with their strategy, which was to play the game and enjoy it like they were 6 years old again.

I think the Warriors need to do something similar. Come up with how they want to play, and get everyone on board. As soon as you are not spending energy on playing in a style you are not comfortable with, you elevate your performance.

I reckon all the coaches we have had have tried to instill the "Australian" structured way of playing.

It won't work for the majority of the NZ born players. The NYC team are very often the best or near to the best team, mainly as they are a bit more un structured, I think the Warriors should look to do that.

The Warriors were a bogey team for Melbourne as they are the most structured, and the Warriors didn't fit into that mould. Use the talents and strengths of the guys they have, and play whats in front of you.

wasabi2k

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#1544011 29-Apr-2016 13:31

Hoofhaarted:

I reckon all the coaches we have had have tried to instill the "Australian" structured way of playing.

It won't work for the majority of the NZ born players. The NYC team are very often the best or near to the best team, mainly as they are a bit more un structured, I think the Warriors should look to do that.

I see that trotted out without fail every time they are in a slump.

I am 100% for the warriors throwing the ball around and playing their own brand of football. However, to do that they also need to be able to defend, last 80 minutes and catch and pass, all things that they seem to continue to have trouble with.

NZ born players are not unicorns. They may need to be managed differently, but they still need to be held to the same or better standards than their aussie counterparts.

TeaLeaf

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#1544866 1-May-2016 13:31

Leuluai out. Nathaniel Roache we bought for this reason, not playing, we hand robson his zimmer frame to get back in, instead of a young talented half.

We bought Henare Wells to give him a crack at Full Back should this occur, nope instead of leaving our best and only finisher in the game on the wing we push Fusitua back to Full Back again, creating havoc elsewhere.

Sure its not the coaches fault players miss tackles, but its the coaches fault making crazy selections, its the coaches fault not focussing on defense first and foremost like my main example Wayne Benz does, its the coaches fault we do not have players in motion for Johnson to work with to move around the park and fool the opposition. Its the coaches fault we dont have line speed in defense so the opposition are shut down and dont have time to spread and flank us. Its the coaches fault we dont have line speed so the other team only make 5m every hit up, not the 15-20m they did last week.

Im fuming.

Smithy100

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#1545255 2-May-2016 11:17

That worked out pretty well then...

E + R = O

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TeaLeaf

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#1551473 12-May-2016 13:44

What a blow out this thing regarding the night out has been.

Sure its not great after a huge loss. But I think they were feeling pretty bad after that loss and needed to blow off some steam.

As for Manu, I feel so sorry for him. I dont know what hes feeling. But hes not alone and loved by a lot of Kiwis.

I dont know whats going on with Luke. He had a stella of a game a few rounds back. Just real hot and cold.

Im not sure Sir Henry can help us but if he can stop Ruchie from losing another WC he might just be the attitude we need.

I think this week has been a turning point and the warriors will rebound strong.

Still would like to see Wells and Roache play their positions for the 1st grade instead of a make shift full back and half. Let Fusitua do what he does best on the wing. Wells is easily good enough a FB to fill in. Roache the same until Tui is back.

TeaLeaf

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#1552349 13-May-2016 18:52

Looks like Tui is back already, but back at #1, for cripes sake play Wells at #1, Fusitua and Manu on the wings, Tui at 6. Its not rocket science. Or if you are determined to stuff up the lineup leave Fusitua at FB and play Wright on the wing.

I dont see what RTS MIA changes the dynamic so much we need our 6 to be a FB. its irritating me badly.

Kind of looking forward to Sir Henrys input. We need some All Black level of expectation. Cappy was starting to tred water the poor bloke. Tough gig.

Well despite the odds I think we got the team to beat the panthers in CCH. I reckon some of the guys will be digging deep.

Rumour is either Manu or Mannering will be playing, given, the state of Manngerings ham, I reckon Manus back in town. Good news either wsy.

https://matchcentre.nrl.com/match/2016/111/20161111030/#team-lists

Smithy100

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#1557910 23-May-2016 12:59

More of the same... these guys are weak.

E + R = O

wasabi2k

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#1557911 23-May-2016 13:02

Really poor last play options (grubber, grubber, grubber, grubber, grubber, grubber)

Poor Defense (had moments of good D, then just abysmal).

Silly Penalties

Dropped Ball/Terrible Passes

Sigh.

JamesL

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#1557913 23-May-2016 13:04

Poor @TeaLeaf, so optimistic :p

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TeaLeaf

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#1559455 25-May-2016 16:37

aggh bro im just gutted.

and now they sack our most explosive player.

ive seen the warriors release players with 1/4 the talent konrad hurrell has and seen them win premierships/

look at whats hapeened with the Shaun Lane RTF transfer, RTF is smashing it as he was for the warriors and Lane has played one below average game.

why is Tui still at Full Back? And if he isnt good enough what happened to Mason Lino? No he is good enough and should be 6 with Johnson 7 and Wright a chance at FB or call up Well who is doing a great job for our reserve grade. I think the coach forgets we have a reserve grade where we have a stack of good players we bought or trained, instead he just changes the numbers on the 1st grade teams backs and flaps up any potency we have.

Im over it. Either Mcfadden has no experience or he is a puppet to someone with no experience trying to play off field Coach.

So who is next to sack? RTS? Johnson? Luke? Lolohea?

Keep blaming the players especially the ones you dont give a chance when you cant coach any offensive players in motion let alone basic, basic goal line defense. Yes players are accountable, but look at the big picture, then the onfield picture how johnson just runs sideways with no players coming through as decoys, no passing to big Ben and Ben backing into the tackle for an offload back to Tui to dance around the tacklers who are in 2 minds, then to spin it wide. Just simple stuff. At the moment its hit it up, put in a sh.. kick. From the best team on paper in the NRL. Yeah its the players fault, my ....

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#1559617 25-May-2016 20:05

TeaLeaf:

aggh bro im just gutted.

and now they sack our most explosive player.

Good players with a bad attitude are a liability.

Look at the AB's. People who play for the AB's are typically humble, earn their places week after week and are consistent.

You can make an average player into a good player if he/she wants it and has the right attitude. Somewhere along the line Hurrell has grown to believe he is more important than the team. Does that mean he will go on to play better elsewhere? Possibly. Does that make it the wrong choice to sack him (make no mistake, he was sacked), no.

They have had 4 coaches and have sucked most of that time, unsure when the punters will realize this isn't (just) a coaching problem.

TeaLeaf

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#1561585 29-May-2016 11:17

I respectfully disagree strongly. We have had 4 crap coaches.

Konrad did what was asked of him off season, he was shredded and cut, he was not acting up off field. Cappy simply had beef with him.

You think good coaches dont see young guys with problems all the time. Try Inglis, Pearce, oh the list could go on for hours.

You coach that out of them, thats the COACHES job.

Its the coaches JOB to identify weaknesses in a player/team and coach that.

You dont throw away talent on Hurells calibre simply because you dont have the ability as a coach to do anything but put him in reserve grade and hope the other coach improves him (which he did largely).

So now we are left with Aysford, a nothing player on attack and an equal liability in defense as Konrad, not only does he put himself in 2 minds, he puts his winger in 2 minds and makes them both look stupid.

Do you think a coach of Wayne Benz calibre would let Konrad get close to leaving, he would have had him improving on defense 3 years ago when he was one of our biggest attacking weapons.

So what do we do now with all players who havnt hit the game plan, let them go? Ok, cya Johnson, Thompson, Manu, Lolohea, Luke, definitely Hoffman, heck Id say the whole team outside Lillyman and Mannering and give RTS a second go as his ACL was inconvenient but we cant sack him for that (can we?).

Our team is not being coached how to defend a goal line. We do not move off our 10m line in defense, we wait for players to come to us, which is asking for trouble outside showing the other team you are weak and in Ayshfords case its a try 9/10.

We are not being coached how to put players in motion give SJ some potions to produce some magic. We have no dummy runners running obtruse angles to confuse the offensive D. We have no matulino running into players turning into the tackle to offload to a second phase play that is now one of the aforementioned set plays using either broken play, overlaps or simply players in motion. We are not using out reserve grade players to fill holes to keep key players in their most offensive position, ie Wells at full back.

Sorry but if you cant see a coaching problem above you are not watching the game from a detailed perspective.

Yes the players are not performing, but the coach has them doing nothing to perform with. When you have the most potent team on paper in the league, you need to coach them well or you have nothing but chaos, which is what is occuring. Individual talent doesnt make the team, the coach makes the team.

We arent going to get Wayne, but we have had a of time and now money, to be begging Toovey to take over. Instead management state we wont be sacking the coach until after the season is lost. Keep in mind Mcfadden was an assistant coach who got the job by default. He somehow won a few games and they decided, hey we can save some money here and use him as our coach. Elliot was a baby sitter waiting until we got our coach, but that all fell through I presume due to Cappies luck.

A coach like Toovey wouldnt ask what was asked of Konrad then not play him, he would bark a him and carve his defensive game.

Toovey wouldnt play players out of position Im sure and Im sure he would be demanding a high level of defense training, knowing the warriors individual brilliance witha few set plays would be enough points per game until they understood defense. Much like what Wayne Bennett states he does, he wont teach his players the offensive playbook until they have ALL got the Defensive playbook down pat.

Another issue is, a good coach will be honest with the media instead of "no comment" everytime his ability or accountability is raised.

Im sorry, with all due respect, I like Mcfadden's effort, but hes just nowhere near head coach standard and nor have been any coaches that spring to mind that we have had.

No coach is going to have any easy time with the warriors, given the public and likely most of the players dont understand what it means to win an NRL premiership compared to Australian clubs where NRL is bigger than Super Rugby here. That passion for the game is something the coach is going to have to instill and work with the media, PR and the players on promoting.

If we dont head down the path I have just spelt out, we are NEVER going to come close to a premiership, let alone consistently make the 8 every year, because after the 8, luck has a lot to do with it (unless you are just so good that year that you are untouchable).

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#1561941 29-May-2016 22:12

TeaLeaf:

I respectfully disagree strongly. We have had 4 crap coaches.

--SNIP--

If we dont head down the path I have just spelt out, we are NEVER going to come close to a premiership, let alone consistently make the 8 every year, because after the 8, luck has a lot to do with it (unless you are just so good that year that you are untouchable).

Sounds like you have all the answers, you should apply for the head coaching position!

It's a funny thing about Luck, the harder I work, the luckier I get!

McFadden has been holding his head in his hands during games and lamenting defense in post game interviews, I don't believe for a second he isn't doing stuff with them during the week, and the players themselves have put their hand up and have said they are not motivated, not performing.

Even if he was the worst coach in the world (Do you really think Graeme Henry would waste his time?), do you not think the players are intelligent enough to see the defense is their biggest liability right now? These aren't school kids.

There is something else going on at that club, like there has been for the past 6 years at the Blues.

Mcfadden may not be the best coach, he may need to go, but unless the other issues are identified and put to bed, I doubt you will get the results you want from the Warriors for a long long time.

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