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#2267428 30-Jun-2019 18:41

tdgeek:

Put Munro back at 4 or 5, so he can avoid a new ball and top line bowlers, he's a pinch hitter and not any more than that. he's not an opener as he has no technique.

This is exactly the problem though - the top order isn't consistent enough and the whole innings relies on one bloke having an absolute belter to keep us in the game.

You're better off with eleven blokes who can score 20 each than four blokes who get single figures and one bloke belting a rapid-fire 50.

Frankly if we're still relying on Munro coming in at five to give us a chance then the top order hasn't delivered a solid-enough platform.

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#2267609 1-Jul-2019 07:22

GV27:

tdgeek:

Put Munro back at 4 or 5, so he can avoid a new ball and top line bowlers, he's a pinch hitter and not any more than that. he's not an opener as he has no technique.

This is exactly the problem though - the top order isn't consistent enough and the whole innings relies on one bloke having an absolute belter to keep us in the game.

You're better off with eleven blokes who can score 20 each than four blokes who get single figures and one bloke belting a rapid-fire 50.

Frankly if we're still relying on Munro coming in at five to give us a chance then the top order hasn't delivered a solid-enough platform.

My opinion was we have had lucky wins, as if out top order fails every time, and we get rescued by Kane and Ross, then we got lucky, but there is great potential to come. Kane or Ross fails and we have CdeG or Neesham. But my opinion has now changed. We are not good enough. Why do only two batsman give a result every match? We don't expect every batsman to give us 45 every match but we expect more than two. Is it luck? Or is it we are not up to it?. Hesson says we are too passive, so our batsmen should go after more runs which is more risk? No, our batsmen need to settle to just get what they can then let the later ones ramp it up. We cant get a RR with our team, its not a RR type of team, right now we need to keep wickets. But we have no choice now but to get a score and get bowled out even sooner, but at least its a chance

then the top order hasn't delivered a solid-enough platform. I thought that's obvious. Every game. We cant ask them to take responsibility as clearly they want to perform, but the bowlers and the pitches are too good. With this in mind they need to open at a low RR.

You're better off with eleven blokes who can score 20 each than four blokes who get single figures and one bloke belting a rapid-fire 50. I agree, but our team in ENG does not have that ability.

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#2267735 1-Jul-2019 12:42

Can't wait for the tabloid article with a hidden camera where this morning's game is revealed to be a fix.

tdgeek

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#2267738 1-Jul-2019 12:51

GV27:

Can't wait for the tabloid article with a hidden camera where this morning's game is revealed to be a fix.

On that... the guy at the local bottle store. who is Indian, and cricket mad, so we chat, said that they want Pakistan out. I suggested isn't it easier to have Paki in the top 4 as they will be easier to beat than ENG? NO!!. He is a good guy, quite passive. But it showed me the desire to remove Pakistan from the semi's, over and above anything else

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#2269761 4-Jul-2019 11:13

It sounds like this going a lot like 2015 then

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#2269765 4-Jul-2019 11:22

Im about to pull the pin. Pity, as I watched last nights first innings, Southee was rubbish, but we turned an obvious 380+ into an obvious 350+ into 300. Then we cannot bat again. Guppy was too scared to go to DRS as he might make yet another mess for the team, so a wasted wicket. Kane has scored 1/3 of all CC runs. Kane and Ross have scored half of all the runs. We can bowl enough to stay in the fight, but having 2 batsmen every game doesn't really work that well. We are too scared to hit the ball, or we just seem to go for a big shot and cross fingers. We will get hammered one more time then they can head home. The brains are too fried with self doubt now to save anything.

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#2269796 4-Jul-2019 11:38

The black caps are no different than pretty much any NZ sporting team when up against it and challenged, they crumble. We just inherently don't have the "killer instinct" that other larger nations have. McCullum was the closest we have come in a long time to a capt that is prepared to dish it out as much as receive it. I don't think Kane Williamson is a bad captain, but you can only try the "rope a dope" tactic for so long (or so many times) before the illusion that the opposition is in control turns out to be that they are actually in control and that you are just standing there with your chin out taking their best shots!

I suspect its down partly to our size. We do well for a small nation, but in a large nation where there is so much competition for top spots, there really is no room at the top not to perform.

Still, shouldn't really be surprised its batting that hurt us, McMillan as batting coach? What was his record again? I seem to remember more failures than successes. Still, those that can't do, teach I guess.

I hope they make the semis, they "deserve" that when compared against the rest of the teams, but in reality, thats as far as its likely to go. Unless a few melt downs happen, we simply can not out play England or Australia

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#2269811 4-Jul-2019 11:53

That's quite a generalisation. There have been plenty of Black Cap teams that have done well. ENG has never reached a semi since 1979 I think they said last night. We do fine. Right now though, the batting is useless, its never been this bad before. Through the series, it was clear we got lucky, but if you can sneak these wins when every game there are just two batsmen performing at or above par, then a sound day and no more would give a very tidy result. Our bowling has kept us in it.

We don't deserve a place in the semis this year. I hear Paki's need to beat Bangers by 384 to get through! Stats are great!

I just got updated, its Pakistan need to win by 316 and need to score over 400 to have a better rate than NZ

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#2269947 4-Jul-2019 15:15

tdgeek:

Right now though, the batting is useless, its never been this bad before.

We choked in 2015 against Aus. in pool play (luckily they choked too).

But we made far harder work of the South Africa game in the Semis and had no business being in the final the way we played.

The entire squad is set up around the bowlers playing out of their skin and then one batsmen having a career-best performance while everyone else collapses. Too bad if no one puts in a career-best performance.

There's no graft, there's no patience at the top and the team has been rescued far too often by a stronger-than-most tail and middle. I suspect results that have come that way have insulated some top players from scrutiny about their performances. And we turn in the same volatile inconsistent batting that we did four years ago.

It's like our game has gone nowhere in the entire time since the 2015 tournament.

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#2270907 6-Jul-2019 11:11

Maybe yeah. Why cant Guptill if out of form, just take safe runs where he can, why cant Munro choose his balls, why can't CdeG stop seeing every ball as a 6? They all have the skills but it seems the coach lost the game management course. So they got what they deserved, bad media and a lucky semi.

Paki should be in the semis. beat AUS and ENG, two semi finalists. They got pinged by the unfair NRR which is now the talk of the town. Teams have already adjusted the game plan to avoid a negative NRR.India forego a win, just to avoid exposing the tail and being bowled out inside 50 overs. It needs to be changed.

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#2272729 10-Jul-2019 06:53

Not looking promising. I wonder what the fall-out will be. There's been some absolutely poor selection calls made, both in the lead-up to the tournament and during it. Wonder if there's not enough people prepared to make hard calls or ask questions. Essentially, the squad still revolves around one player putting in a career best performance, and when we come up against a team that can actually put together partnerships, we lose all shape.

I predict zero consequences should this not go our way. There hasn't been any for not performing so far, so why should now be any different?

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tdgeek

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#2272732 10-Jul-2019 07:23

I agree. You see that with the commentators, always a reason, always advice, they need to take responsibility and so on. But nothing changes. It will probably be assessed as a good tournament, a couple of disappointing games, and the world cup winners beat us in the semis. Where is was actually very average performances in every game except game one, a lucky NRR, and the thrashings towards the end. If we played well and were beaten thats a good game, its realistic. But this time round its been woeful

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#2272755 10-Jul-2019 08:19

tdgeek:

I agree. You see that with the commentators, always a reason, always advice, they need to take responsibility and so on. But nothing changes. It will probably be assessed as a good tournament, a couple of disappointing games, and the world cup winners beat us in the semis. Where is was actually very average performances in every game except game one, a lucky NRR, and the thrashings towards the end. If we played well and were beaten thats a good game, its realistic. But this time round its been woeful

I would be fine with us going down by 30 runs if we were chasing 330 or something similar.

But this isn't a batting line-up that has been capable of 300+ for some time.

I wonder to what extent our extremely weird local international schedule grounds contribute to this. We play all of our summer games across three series at about four grounds. The pitches are largely predictable. In many summers we play two ODIs in a row at the same venue, and then go back again a third time when the second summer tour team arrives. We've also been extremely reluctant to change our line-up even for local ODIs and test different combinations.

Point being, we have spent the last five years playing most 2nd tier opposition (instead of the likes of Australia et al) on familiar pitches that don't change and at the same venues over and over again. When we have toured overseas, we have tended to do relatively poorly. Usually when we do play top-tier teams, they are in a rotational period, giving new players some game time while we persist with the same line-up regardless of performance.

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#2272759 10-Jul-2019 08:46

No idea. Didn't we beat Pakistan very well at UAE? Many of these guys are very familiar with the UK pitches as they play there in the NZ off season. Makes no sense. Guppy defends ok, tries a straight drive ok, then hangs his bat out to dry and gets an edge. Nichols cant do anythi ng so then hoicks one in the air, but it found a gap. The only thing that makes sense is they are not good enough, but Guppy has a good record. Maybe its just that we don't have any true openers. I guess anyone can open in a test when you score a run every 46 minutes, but ODI we have no one that can stay in , and score a bit. Maybe Kane and Ross need to open, Latham next, and forget about being aggressive, just stay in for 10 overs with a crap RR, then do the McCullum plunder after the new ball. The new ball and international bowlers are too good for our openers. Guppy etc are not capable at opening at this level, so look elsewhere

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#2274363 10-Jul-2019 22:21

The bowlers have started well!

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