MH 17 "shot down" all dead

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Networkn
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#1091221 18-Jul-2014 10:36

KiwiNZ:
networkn: I read this morning, that commercial airliners have transponders which missile systems big enough to take a plane out at that altitude and speed, will refuse to fire on if you "paint" the target. You would need to "override" the command sequence to make the system fire said missile. Based on that, little chance it was unintentional. Maybe wrong airline.

One might hope that despite the horrific consequences, that the consequences may force cooler heads to prevail and somewhat diffuse tensions in the area as they concentrate on this rather than the original conflict.

unfortunately cooler heads has never been a feature of that region.

One can hope for change right?

Regardless, I don't see WW3 starting over this. The two other super powers don't have enough skin in the game.

MikeB4

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#1091225 18-Jul-2014 10:40

networkn:
KiwiNZ:
networkn: I read this morning, that commercial airliners have transponders which missile systems big enough to take a plane out at that altitude and speed, will refuse to fire on if you "paint" the target. You would need to "override" the command sequence to make the system fire said missile. Based on that, little chance it was unintentional. Maybe wrong airline.

One might hope that despite the horrific consequences, that the consequences may force cooler heads to prevail and somewhat diffuse tensions in the area as they concentrate on this rather than the original conflict.

unfortunately cooler heads has never been a feature of that region.

One can hope for change right?

Regardless, I don't see WW3 starting over this. The two other super powers don't have enough skin in the game.

I do not think it will either but the clock is definitely closer to midnight

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

nakedmolerat

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#1091226 18-Jul-2014 10:42

Hmmm...

1. It is widely publicized that Ukraine also deploy surface to air missile recently

2. It is also known that Russian president is supposed to be flying on the same route (about the same time)

3. Ongoing conflict between Ukraine (NATO) and Russia is widely known

TOP = Russian president plane
BOTTOM = Malaysia airlines

zaptor

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#1091228 18-Jul-2014 10:45

KiwiNZ:
jamesrt:
KiwiNZ: I hope its not prophetic that July 27 is near

Please elaborate ?

Sorry I had the day out by one should be July 28

Not sure if Europe now is quite the powder keg it was in July 1914.
People were itching for war (tensions had been building for years), and many a young man had a romanticized view of the "glory" of war. The brutally cold reality of war in the industrial age proved to be very far from that perception.

Oblivian

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#1091231 18-Jul-2014 10:51

nakedmolerat: Hmmm...

1. It is widely publicized that Ukraine also deploy surface to air missile recently

2. It is also known that Russian president is supposed to be flying on the same route (about the same time)

3. Ongoing conflict between Ukraine (NATO) and Russia is widely known

TOP = Russian president plane
BOTTOM = Malaysia airlines

I've seen this popping up all over. The top scheme is a standard, there are old ilushins and other russian manufactured aircraft in the same scheme, the other comparison shot I saw used an older 4-engine pic going 'co-incidence' the same. At that alt, you would need a honking great telescope able to follow them on the side to see any clear details like that. At best you would make out the clear colours on the tail underside. And a brown body vs a white.

Lias

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#1091233 18-Jul-2014 10:53

Given that the flight was comprised nearly entirely of NATO and ANZUS citizens, hopefully we will see a real response here, and NATO providing full military support to the Ukrainian government to crush the "Donetsk People's Republic".

Sadly most of the NATO have long since had their balls surgically removed, the Dutch don't even have tanks any more for goodness sake, their army is nearly as pitiful as ours.

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MikeB4

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#1091236 18-Jul-2014 11:02

Lias: Given that the flight was comprised nearly entirely of NATO and ANZUS citizens, hopefully we will see a real response here, and NATO providing full military support to the Ukrainian government to crush the "Donetsk People's Republic".

Sadly most of the NATO have long since had their balls surgically removed, the Dutch don't even have tanks any more for goodness sake, their army is nearly as pitiful as ours.

Not the answer at all

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Jaxson

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#1091288 18-Jul-2014 11:33

I did wonder how the news sites moved so quickly and decisively to say it was shot down.
That's a pace we don't normally see, even for the trigger happy news sites.

Gilco2

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#1091289 18-Jul-2014 11:33

and now we have Putin blaming Ukraine. This after reports Rebels bragging about shooting down what they thought was Ukraine transport plane.

The fact is it will take a while to discover the truth.
Another fact is there will be a lot of propaganda from both sides with this.

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MikeB4

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#1091298 18-Jul-2014 11:36

Gilco2: and now we have Putin blaming Ukraine. This after reports Rebels bragging about shooting down what they thought was Ukraine transport plane.

The fact is it will take a while to discover the truth.
Another fact is there will be a lot of propaganda from both sides with this.

Truth is the first casualty of any conflict

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

gzt

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#1091336 18-Jul-2014 12:03

Prior to MH17:

1. Earlier this month a Ukrainian cargo plane was brought down
2. Several hours prior to MH17 a Ukrainian fighter jet was brought down

What did the risk assessment look like?

The big question: Why did commercial flights continue to fly through this exact same area?

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Gilco2

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#1091339 18-Jul-2014 12:09

and now the rebels say they didnt shoot it down and they dont have weapons or training capable to bring it down.
This despite evidence to the contrary in the past months. Propaganda machine will be going into overload soon

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zaptor

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#1091341 18-Jul-2014 12:16

gzt: Prior to MH17:

1. Earlier this month a Ukrainian cargo plane was brought down
2. Several hours prior to MH17 a Ukrainian fighter jet was brought down

What did the risk assessment look like?

The big question: Why did commercial flights continue to fly through this exact same area?

Curious.

I'm guessing the Ukrainian government doesn't shoot down rebel/separatist (weird... when I use the word 'separatist' I think of Clone Wars, anyway...) planes, because they don't have any? (correct me if I'm wrong).

Which would imply the only ones shooting down any planes are separatists?

gzt

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#1091346 18-Jul-2014 12:31

zaptor:
gzt: Prior to MH17:

1. Earlier this month a Ukrainian cargo plane was brought down
2. Several hours prior to MH17 a Ukrainian fighter jet was brought down

What did the risk assessment look like?

The big question: Why did commercial flights continue to fly through this exact same area?

Curious.

I'm guessing the Ukrainian government doesn't shoot down rebel/separatist (weird... when I use the word 'separatist' I think of Clone Wars, anyway...) planes, because they don't have any? (correct me if I'm wrong).

Which would imply the only ones shooting down any planes are separatists?

At this point I don't really care who did it or why. It is not important.

This is an active conflict zone between two nation states. Both states are armed with weapons capable of bringing down airships. Either one may choose to do so for tactical reasons. Mistakes are made in war as detailed earlier in thread it has happened numerous times. On top of that you have a local guerilla force who may or may not be state sponsored or state assisted in varying degrees in control of national level ground to air weapons obtained during the conflict.

What did the airline risk assessment for this situation look like?

All the airlines who continued to fly through this conflict zone in these circumstances have serious questions to answer.

I expect to see resignations, firings and reorganisation in all major airlines using this route after this outrageously deficient risk assessment.

MikeB4

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#1091352 18-Jul-2014 12:36

gzt:
zaptor:
gzt: Prior to MH17:

1. Earlier this month a Ukrainian cargo plane was brought down
2. Several hours prior to MH17 a Ukrainian fighter jet was brought down

What did the risk assessment look like?

The big question: Why did commercial flights continue to fly through this exact same area?

Curious.

I'm guessing the Ukrainian government doesn't shoot down rebel/separatist (weird... when I use the word 'separatist' I think of Clone Wars, anyway...) planes, because they don't have any? (correct me if I'm wrong).

Which would imply the only ones shooting down any planes are separatists?

At this point I don't really care who did it or why. It is not important.

This is an active conflict zone between two nation states. Both states are armed with weapons capable of bringing down airships. Either one may choose to do so for tactical reasons. Mistakes are made in war as detailed earlier in thread it has happened numerous times. On top of that you have a local guerilla force who may or may not be state sponsored or state assisted in varying degrees in control of national level ground to air weapons obtained during the conflict.

What did the airline risk assessment for this situation look like?

All the airlines who continued to fly through this conflict zone in these circumstances have serious questions to answer.

I expect to see resignations, firings and reorganisation in all major airlines after this outrageously deficient risk assessment.

Following on that a huge percentage of the planet would be a no fly zone

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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