The leaders debate

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Rikkitic

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#277034 22-Sep-2020 20:40

Just saw it on TV1. Campbell was hopeless as moderator. I was a fan when he was crusading on Campbell Live but here he was a train wreck. I hope he has the sense to not do this again.

Jacinda was okay but less than brilliant. She looked tired. I don't blame her for that at all. I can't begin to imagine the pressures on her. She has to run the country, manage Covid 19, campaign for the election. On that basis alone, she probably deserves to be PM.

Judith Collins was also okay, but no breakthrough moments. They had a few duels while Campbell looked on helplessly. Nobody really won. Nobody really lost. For Jacinda, that is good enough. For Judith, it is not.

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#2572380 22-Sep-2020 20:46

I found Judtih Collins to be...smug, that's all I was thinking the whole time.

Not sure why she had that little grin on her face the whole time. I definitely think Adern could've done better and was way too polite in the face of the constant interruptions.

And yeah, that wasn't moderated at all.

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#2572384 22-Sep-2020 21:00

It didn't really move the needle for me.

Ardern was a bit distant and gave the appearance of being above the debate. As usual she was on top of the details.

Collins didn't seem to have a very good grasp of the facts and spent a lot of time at the beginning huffing and puffing. She made some reasonable points but didn't deliver them all that well.

dejadeadnz

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#2572387 22-Sep-2020 21:01

For myself, I didn't watch it at all for one very simple reason. For me to vote for someone, they and their party need to pass some basic tests of character. Collins falls so short in this respect that even if she had the most brilliant ideas, I wouldn't vote for her. I'm just not going to give my vote to someone who blithely asks "What's wrong with being white?" (whilst knowing full well that she's giving ammunition to racist types) or has a record of hanging around with people like Cam Slater.

This doesn't mean I am voting Labour either. But any day of the week I'd rather Ardern be the PM. Couple all this with the fact that National has zero policies of interest to a socially liberal and economically moderate person like me, I am just tuning out. RIP, National.

antonknee

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#2572450 22-Sep-2020 23:31

Poor performance all round from the three of them IMO...

Ardern looked tired and uninterested, and frankly waffled a little bit in places. I know it's not her style, but I really wish she'd jumped on some of the stuff Collins said and argued the point a bit more. Expected more from her, although to her credit she was (as is typical) well versed in some of the detail.

Collins was smug and out of touch the whole time, and clearly doesn't have a very detailed understanding of some of what she was saying. Also her comments about the dole heap were disgraceful IMO, and I don't think blithely commenting about the trust that owns her properties is a great way to appeal/relate to the average NZer.

End of the day the debate are good entertainment, but I don't think it's going to sway anyone's vote (particularly if you are oriented strongly one way or the other). Would be interested to hear the opinion of a swing voter though.

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#2572467 23-Sep-2020 06:04

The finance debate is up on the newshub YouTube page. It's thoroughly worth watching although the picture and sound quality is really poor.

It's much more of an old style political debate a lot of policy. It also had plenty of back and forth and some fairly amusing oneliners. Grant Robertson also got stuck into one quite unpleasent person in the audience.

GV27

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#2572472 23-Sep-2020 06:50

I eventually tuned out, but my thoughts were:

- It won't change anyone's mind - there was no 'show me the money' moment.

- Ardern struggled with actually answering the question she was asked.

- Collins is too reliant on Goldsmith for fiscal policy and couldn't give complete answers.

- Campbell failed to moderate the debate at all. Ardern went over time constantly without addressing a question. Collins spent more time arguing with him than engaging with Ardern, although that may have been deliberate. Either way it was a crappy format.

Really the main takeaway for me was that it probably gave Collins a lot of legitimacy by being on the same stage as Ardern. Other than that, I'm not really sure what was achieved.

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Fred99

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#2572490 23-Sep-2020 08:00

IMO even worse than the debate itself is the post-mortems in the media of the 3 engine train wreck.

quickymart

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#2572495 23-Sep-2020 08:12

I didn't see it but if John Campbell is really like that, that's a shame; he used to be really good at this sort of thing when he was at TV3.

When do the next polls come out, post-debate?

GV27

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#2572497 23-Sep-2020 08:15

quickymart:

I didn't see it but if John Campbell is really like that, that's a shame; he used to be really good at this sort of thing when he was at TV3.

When do the next polls come out, post-debate?

One News seemed to suggest they'd be running weekly between now and the election apparently, but I haven't seen anything formal to confirm this. Granted there is only four (?) weeks left now to go.

Fred99

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#2572503 23-Sep-2020 08:26

quickymart:

I didn't see it but if John Campbell is really like that, that's a shame; he used to be really good at this sort of thing when he was at TV3.

I think there's a risk when getting people like Hosking (right) and Campbell (left) to moderate that they over-compensate for bias. Hosking did a better job in 2016 than Campbell last night. But anyway, everything was wrong with the format, the set was awful, the layout was awful, the lighting was awful, the "30 second soundbite" format is hopelessly uninformative as usual, Campbell was awful, lack of a studio audience was awful.

quickymart

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#2572535 23-Sep-2020 09:46

True, but the studio audience part he probably had 0 control over.

I'll be curious to see if this debate will make any difference to polling, although it probably won't.

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Oldmanakbar

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#2572757 23-Sep-2020 12:41

Not really sure who these things are aimed at anyway. Like others have said, people interested in politics already know the policies and the actors involved.

Those that do not are likely to A. not watch it at all, or B. wouldn't get enough information out of it to make an informed decision.

Fred99

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#2572761 23-Sep-2020 12:51

Best quote from the debate? :

Some of those people getting these tax cuts are the ones losing their jobs

Hard to invent a more stupid comment if you tried.

quickymart

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#2572762 23-Sep-2020 12:52

Who said that?

freitasm

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#2572763 23-Sep-2020 12:57

Fred99:

Best quote from the debate? :

Some of those people getting these tax cuts are the ones losing their jobs

Hard to invent a more stupid comment if you tried.

Yes, Collins saying "tax cuts" but if you don't have an income you can't have those "tax cuts". At the end it ends up only being good for business owners but we all know "trickle down" doesn't work.

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