Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#3012706 21-Dec-2022 12:55

GV27:

Despite your protestations, I can continue to say what I like, and I continue to maintain that housing investment en masse in search of cheap and easy capital gains has done untold damage to the social fabric of this country.

Perhaps. The overall issue is not enough houses were built, by the masses. Given that this has been an issue since the 1970's, I'm unsure who will do anything proactive about it

GV27

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#3012711 21-Dec-2022 13:07

tdgeek:

Perhaps. The overall issue is not enough houses were built, by the masses. Given that this has been an issue since the 1970's, I'm unsure who will do anything proactive about it

Census data shows that homeownership peaked in the 1990s at 74 percent and by 2018 had fallen to 65 percent of households, the lowest rate since 1951.

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/homeownership-rate-lowest-in-almost-70-years

tdgeek

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#3012714 21-Dec-2022 13:17

GV27:

Census data shows that homeownership peaked in the 1990s at 74 percent and by 2018 had fallen to 65 percent of households, the lowest rate since 1951.

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/homeownership-rate-lowest-in-almost-70-years

IIRC the Govt had a scheme in place way back, State Advances. They also built houses, I think that ended in the 70's. As I said, no Govt since has kept pace with house building, whether they do it or encourage masses to build. Its all the previous Govts, as I said. Lower builds, and the houses to population ratio skews, and here we are. Covid has exacerbated it, as has happened globally, but the horse had long bolted well before that. Labour brought in a scheme but that was already too late they were already largely unaffordable

If you don't build, you upset the supply and demand, up go prices, down goes ownership. Decades in the making

You mentioned making capital gain, who was doing that the lest few years? If anything is rising, many will jump on said bandwagon. Either to get it cheaper now, and the capital gain looks good, or, just for long term capital gain. Its natural

GV27

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#3012779 21-Dec-2022 14:58

tdgeek:

Either to get it cheaper now, and the capital gain looks good, or, just for long term capital gain. Its natural

Doesn't really work if a decent chunk of the population decide to get in on the act for all the 'totally incidental capital gains' though, especially in a market with limited supply.

Our political class have shown themselves as too inept to maintain a tax system to tackle issues like this and the tax system is functionally the same as it was pre-GFC, with the notable exception of the Bightline. There was zero chance of tax legislation being responsive enough to deal with it.

I don't really care whether it's 'natural' or not. I care because the only way for it to keep going is for people entering the market to have to keep borrowing more and more and more for something as basic as owning a house.

All money that will now go to banks in the form of interest payments instead of being invested in businesses, making houses safer and healthier for kids, or even possibly having kids at all. These are all perverse side-effects from one of the greatest rorts ever pulled. And people defend it because they think they're the good guys, like some piecemeal act of charity undoes the huge demographically-transforming change that has been inflicted on younger NZers which will haunt them for the bulk of their working lives, and probably well into retirement.

It doesn't matter if someone else loses, as long as you win. It's the Kiwi way.

sen8or

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#3012784 21-Dec-2022 15:21

GV27:

It doesn't matter if someone else loses, as long as you win. It's the Kiwi way.

Sorry, the "kiwi way" is "If I'm not as successful as someone else, I'll chop them down to my level rather than build myself up to theirs"......

networkn

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#3013148 22-Dec-2022 16:11

I am honestly shocked how far the PM's communication quality has dropped in the past 6 months.

Her comments to Womens Weekly were frankly disturbing over COVID and Kiwis not having it hanging over them are frankly ridiculous.

Her attempt to clarify is actually worse. Hospitals are NOT better equipped right now to deal with Covid, it's a total nightmare in public healthcare right now, with consultants being called in from leave and being paid double time to cover shifts.

Perhaps if she spent a bit more time AT a hospital she would see how bad things really are and she wouldn't make totally careless and harmful comments like the ones she has made this week.

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#3013362 22-Dec-2022 23:57

networkn:

I am honestly shocked how far the PM's communication quality has dropped in the past 6 months.

Her comments to Womens Weekly were frankly disturbing over COVID and Kiwis not having it hanging over them are frankly ridiculous.

Her attempt to clarify is actually worse. Hospitals are NOT better equipped right now to deal with Covid, it's a total nightmare in public healthcare right now, with consultants being called in from leave and being paid double time to cover shifts.

Perhaps if she spent a bit more time AT a hospital she would see how bad things really are and she wouldn't make totally careless and harmful comments like the ones she has made this week.

I spend too much time at my hospital and I know from talking to and seeing, just how bad things are. The shortage of staff seems to be the key issue. Also it seems millions and millions are going into this new Health setup that should have been put on hold until Covid was over. Not only has Jacinda been blinkered as to how things are, her health minister acts incompetent. Surely health has to be one of the largest election issues. The new Dunedin hospital is being downgraded continuously from its original design due to funding issues. This also seems crazy, as they will end up with a hospital unfit for needs. I believe Health is in crisis and these politicians need to get their heads out of the sand and start dealing with it.

sir1963

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#3013371 23-Dec-2022 06:59

tdgeek:

GV27:

Despite your protestations, I can continue to say what I like, and I continue to maintain that housing investment en masse in search of cheap and easy capital gains has done untold damage to the social fabric of this country.

Perhaps. The overall issue is not enough houses were built, by the masses. Given that this has been an issue since the 1970's, I'm unsure who will do anything proactive about it

We were building more houses in the 70's than we are today, even though we had 1/2 the population and none of the automation.

Frames and Trusses were built onsite by the builder, they poured the concrete, dug the foundations, hung the doors, etc etc etc

The only other trades I remember when I went to house my dad built were Plumber, Sparkies, Brickies, and telecoms .

Formica bench tops were ordered , we had the sample cards are toys to play with.

sir1963

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#3013372 23-Dec-2022 07:05

Bluntj:

networkn:

I am honestly shocked how far the PM's communication quality has dropped in the past 6 months.

Her comments to Womens Weekly were frankly disturbing over COVID and Kiwis not having it hanging over them are frankly ridiculous.

Her attempt to clarify is actually worse. Hospitals are NOT better equipped right now to deal with Covid, it's a total nightmare in public healthcare right now, with consultants being called in from leave and being paid double time to cover shifts.

Perhaps if she spent a bit more time AT a hospital she would see how bad things really are and she wouldn't make totally careless and harmful comments like the ones she has made this week.

I spend too much time at my hospital and I know from talking to and seeing, just how bad things are. The shortage of staff seems to be the key issue. Also it seems millions and millions are going into this new Health setup that should have been put on hold until Covid was over. Not only has Jacinda been blinkered as to how things are, her health minister acts incompetent. Surely health has to be one of the largest election issues. The new Dunedin hospital is being downgraded continuously from its original design due to funding issues. This also seems crazy, as they will end up with a hospital unfit for needs. I believe Health is in crisis and these politicians need to get their heads out of the sand and start dealing with it.

Not only health.

Tertiary education

Police

GP practices

Schools

in fact every government area has been neglected for decades.

The country is not getting "more efficient" services, they are just getting less of them.

Worse is the very people the public service needs to keep are so underpaid the staff leave and the jobs go unfilled for many months or not at all.

gzt

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#3013380 23-Dec-2022 07:57

sir1963: [...]Trusses were built onsite by the builder,

Yes, I'm not sure when that changed. I'm guessing regulation came in after the prefabrication 'factories' were established in the 90s-00s 😂

GV27

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#3013437 23-Dec-2022 13:00

sen8or:

Sorry, the "kiwi way" is "If I'm not as successful as someone else, I'll chop them down to my level rather than build myself up to theirs"......

I try and avoid mistaking 'being born early enough to capitalise on housing ownership and push it out of reach from younger Kiwis' as success, myself.

Saves all that kind of bother.

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sir1963

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#3013567 23-Dec-2022 17:19

GV27:

sen8or:

Sorry, the "kiwi way" is "If I'm not as successful as someone else, I'll chop them down to my level rather than build myself up to theirs"......

I try and avoid mistaking 'being born early enough to capitalise on housing ownership and push it out of reach from younger Kiwis' as success, myself.

Saves all that kind of bother.

It's Xmas, you may want some sugar with your sour grapes.