Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

1 | ... | 105 | 106 | 107 | 108 | 109 | 110 | 111 | 112 | 113 | 114 | 115 | ... | 118

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3024761 20-Jan-2023 12:50

Rikkitic:

Hipkins does seem the least unlikely. Unless Labour decides this election is a lost cause and puts up a sacrificial leader to buy some rebuild time.

Hipkins would seriously be considering ducking the possible poisoned chalice of a heavy election defeat, and picking up the leadership after the election. However I don't think he's going to get the choice - they will talk him into it.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3024812 20-Jan-2023 13:15

Handsomedan:

It's a bit sad that the personal attacks are happening both online and in print.

I didn't vote for her, I don't like her politics and I am quite centre-right leaning, but she seems like a decent human and I think that is what should be taken into consideration when people comment on her - she's a human.

She's a mother and a partner/wife. She's a daughter and a friend. People should be more civil.

I think this article was linked a couple of pages ago, but it's worth reposting: Hatred and vitriol Jacinda Ardern endured ‘would affect anybody’ - NZ Herald

Imagine how YOU would feel on the receiving end? The fact people hurl those words at anyone is disgusting.

It's not sparring on politics. It's an attempt of demeaning a person, by people who can't form any other argument.

According to a recent study, published just before Christmas, which charts the rise of misogynistic language towards female leaders and women in the public sphere, the most prevalent word used to describe the Prime Minister in these circles is “the C word, and the most prevalent visual image is of witchcraft”.

“And this is old data. This is data from the middle of last year. So it’s actually got worse.”

Another grim factoid from the paper shows the word “Neve” - referring to Ardern’s pre-school daughter - is also on the most prevalent list.

In June, it was revealed the number of threats towards Ardern has almost tripled in the past three years.

“The international disinformation, far right, pro-Putin community is incredibly misogynistic.

“It is incredibly abusive and derogatory, and what it does is attempts to reduce a person to their basic self, and in doing so signals to every other person who shares characteristics with that individual who has been targeted that they are equally worthless, equally base, equally loathed.

“So has this purpose of both targeting individually her as a woman, her role as prime minister, and then all women or all people who share some of those characteristics with her.”

Wilson says she first started noticing a shift in sentiment towards Ardern during the first 2020 lockdown. But it didn’t come from the dark corners of the anti-vax movement, but on the mainstream business social networking site LinkedIn.

“I started seeing people, you know like business leaders, using words like tyrant and dictator to describe the Prime Minister, and I was kind of quite disturbed by that.

“The fact that they can make those kinds of statements and think that somehow that would be a credible statement, tells you kind of something about the shifting norms of what’s considered an okay way to talk about our Prime Minister.”

quickymart

13925 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#3024815 20-Jan-2023 13:32

johno1234:

Rikkitic:

Political attacks on policy or poor performance are one thing, and they go with the territory. But the kind of shit hurled at the PM is in another category altogether. The irrational hatred spewed at her came straight out of the antivax conspiracy crap 'freedumb' movement in reaction to measures intended to protect public health, which at any other time in history would have been rightly seen as necessary and good. Instead there was a second public health emergency, still ongoing, as New Zealand Q zombies became infected with American social media craziness.

It's not just Ardern though, and this is nothing new.

Don Brash literally had shit thrown at him. Stephen Joyce had a sex toy thrown at him. Everybody seemed to think that was hilarious. I did not, and if someone threw a dildo at Jacinda it would have been treated as an outrageous misogynous hate crime. John Key was physically jostled at Waitangi. A popular band Homebew (claimed by Ardern to be a favourite) wrote a song with lyrics that included raping John Key's daughter. Imagine if someone did that about Neve? Rock concert crowds have been led by the band in chants of "F*** John Key".

Politics is as nasty in NZ as it is in other democracies. I am forever perplexed that any sane person would subject themselves to it.

I think you mean this? Homebrew? https://www.newshub.co.nz/entertainment/homebrew-call-out-john-key-on-new-election-track-2011111811

I can't find anything about Jacinda liking them though - and she may not even like that song you refer to.

I like the Eagles (for example) but I don't like all their stuff.

JimmyH

2886 posts

Uber Geek

#3024818 20-Jan-2023 13:43

I don't think that the personal abuse is coming from other than a very small minority of nutcases. While it's inexcusable and reprehensible, I'm not sure that it's worse than Key/Joyce/Clarke had to put up with. Use of the diminutive "Cindy" isn't much of an insult - and isn't any worse than say Muldoon ("Piggy") or Bolger ("Spud") had to endure.

In my view, the main issue with the Government's slumping popularity (which Jacinda largely wears as the leader of the Government) is an increasing perception of amateurish financial mismanagement, and failure to deliver on the proposes they made. They threw a lot of money at issues, breaking the budget and stoking inflation in the process, but failed to have anything to show for it. Despite the huge amounts of deficit financed money they have spent, the outcomes around education, housing, homelessness and law enforcement all seem to have all become dramatically worse; and the middle class in particular is feeling pain from and inflation and an interest rate squeeze. Fairly predictably, this is sending the approval ratings for the Government and the PM sharply down. Middle NZ, including many core Labour voters are simply getting increasingly anxious about things such as their kids schooling, interest rates, the cost of living, and crime. And accordingly they seem to be losing faith in a Government seen as long on rhetoric/concern, but short on actual delivery, and lacking in effective ideas to fix these problems.

The anti-Vax "freedumbers" made a lot of noise in the media, and were certainly a distraction,but I doubt they had more than a very minor impact on the big picture.

(And for what it's worth I'm not a stalwart of any political party, I have no particular axes to grind, and have voted for at least three of the parties currently in Parliament at various points in the past. I do tend to actually read manifestos before I vote, and tend to vote based on who I consider has the best economic policies, and competence to govern effectively).

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3024822 20-Jan-2023 13:57

JimmyH:

I don't think that the personal abuse is coming from other than a very small minority of nutcases. While it's inexcusable and reprehensible, I'm not sure that it's worse than Key/Joyce/Clarke had to put up with. Use of the diminutive "Cindy" isn't much of an insult - and isn't any worse than say Muldoon ("Piggy") or Bolger ("Spud") had to endure.

In my view, the main issue with the Government's slumping popularity (which Jacinda largely wears as the leader of the Government) is an increasing perception of amateurish financial mismanagement, and failure to deliver on the proposes they made. They threw a lot of money at issues, breaking the budget and stoking inflation in the process, but failed to have anything to show for it. Despite the huge amounts of deficit financed money they have spent, the outcomes around education, housing, homelessness and law enforcement all seem to have all become dramatically worse; and the middle class in particular is feeling pain from and inflation and an interest rate squeeze. Fairly predictably, this is sending the approval ratings for the Government and the PM sharply down. Middle NZ, including many core Labour voters are simply getting increasingly anxious about things such as their kids schooling, interest rates, the cost of living, and crime. And accordingly they seem to be losing faith in a Government seen as long on rhetoric/concern, but short on actual delivery, and lacking in effective ideas to fix these problems.

The anti-Vax "freedumbers" made a lot of noise in the media, and were certainly a distraction,but I doubt they had more than a very minor impact on the big picture.

(And for what it's worth I'm not a stalwart of any political party, I have no particular axes to grind, and have voted for at least three of the parties currently in Parliament at various points in the past. I do tend to actually read manifestos before I vote, and tend to vote based on who I consider has the best economic policies, and competence to govern effectively).

I don't remember those other politicians being called tyrants, dictators or have their faces plastered with Nazi-inspired imagery.

I even see a lot of "business people" on LinkedIn posting stuff like this (except for the images). Those people I chose to block and never have anything to do with them.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3024833 20-Jan-2023 14:38

quickymart:

I think you mean this? Homebrew? https://www.newshub.co.nz/entertainment/homebrew-call-out-john-key-on-new-election-track-2011111811

I can't find anything about Jacinda liking them though - and she may not even like that song you refer to.

I like the Eagles (for example) but I don't like all their stuff.

Kill the PM, rape his daughter:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/kill-the-pm-song-under-investigation-2014082619

Jokes about raping his son instead:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rude-rant-goes-to-air/JVRPFTFMOZ5DLX6UHOL4GKNTKQ/

Jadinda likes Homebrew:

https://twitter.com/jacindaardern/status/263907868858806273

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3024836 20-Jan-2023 14:46

freitasm:

I don't remember those other politicians being called tyrants, dictators or have their faces plastered with Nazi-inspired imagery.

Really?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/chris-trotter/9928806/Unintended-irony-in-Key-Nazi-poster

https://www.facebook.com/ntma400mget/

Even the likeable Megan Woods fell into it:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/mp-mortified-by-offence-over-hitler-comments-2012062718

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3024838 20-Jan-2023 14:51

johno1234:

freitasm:

I don't remember those other politicians being called tyrants, dictators or have their faces plastered with Nazi-inspired imagery.

Really?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/chris-trotter/9928806/Unintended-irony-in-Key-Nazi-poster

Thanks for pointing those out.

From the article:

""The image suggests that the naked pursuit of money is akin to an extremist doctrine; one in which human lives and the environment are being sacrificed on the altar of expediency for the profit of our ruling elites. "The poster is NOT saying John Key is a Nazi.""

I think you will see the images created using Jacinda Ardern's photos very much paint her as a nazi, including the moustache.

The other article says "Labour MP Megan Woods has apologised for likening Prime Minister John Key’s campaign on asset sales to Nazi Germany and Adolf Hitler. She has admitted her comments were extreme. "My comments yesterday were said in heat and were extreme and I apologise."""

Again, very different from the anonymous comments and name-calling.

In any case, these actions are despicable, regardless if aimed to one or another person.

Kyanar

4089 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3024839 20-Jan-2023 14:53

johno1234:

Kill the PM, rape his daughter:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/kill-the-pm-song-under-investigation-2014082619

By a band called @Peace (apologies to the user inadvertently tagged - @freitasm is there a way to mark an @ as not meaning a user?) which doesn't even rhyme with "Homebrew". I was confused why you were bringing it up until I found another article linking the singer with both bands. Your next link is the exact same.

johno1234:

Jadinda likes Homebrew:

https://twitter.com/jacindaardern/status/263907868858806273

Tweeted two years before the aforementioned song. Are you complaining she isn't omniscient?

JimmyH

2886 posts

Uber Geek

#3024845 20-Jan-2023 15:14

freitasm:

I don't remember those other politicians being called tyrants, dictators or have their faces plastered with Nazi-inspired imagery.

I certainly remember Muldoon being called both a dictator and a tyrant. Forcefully and frequently. He also had to contend with heated protests that included punches and flourbombs being thrown at him.

Not to mention the fake newspaper billboards plastered around town making jibes about his alleged private life - "Rooting Pig Shot in Ngaio, PM Confirmed Safe" and suchlike.

None of which excuses the looneys we are discussing here. It's only to point out that this sort of behaviour is neither a particularly new to NZ or a Jacinda-specific phenomenon.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3024850 20-Jan-2023 15:26

Kyanar:

By a band called @Peace (apologies to the user inadvertently tagged - @freitasm is there a way to mark an @ as not meaning a user?) which doesn't even rhyme with "Homebrew". I was confused why you were bringing it up until I found another article linking the singer with both bands. Your next link is the exact same.

AtPeace, Homebrew - it's all the same guy - Tom Scott.

The point is - almost all prominent politicians are targeted by hateful and deranged people. Jacinda is not the only one. It is a price of democracy and freedom of expression.

quickymart

13925 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#3024851 20-Jan-2023 15:28

Tom Scott? The bloke who used to write for The Listener? (showing my age here).

I vaguely remember Muldoon being referred to as "Piggy Muldoon" but can't remember much more in the way of insults past that. Maybe I was too young/shielded to remember.

This Herald article looks at all the possible contenders and has a short outline on how her successor is elected: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jacinda-ardern-quits-the-contenders-for-next-prime-minister/YMPLTADJSVGO7NBZRYELDJWBCI/?ref=readmore

K8Toledo

1014 posts

Uber Geek

#3024868 20-Jan-2023 15:47

freitasm:

I think this article was linked a couple of pages ago, but it's worth reposting: Hatred and vitriol Jacinda Ardern endured ‘would affect anybody’ - NZ Herald

Imagine how YOU would feel on the receiving end? The fact people hurl those words at anyone is disgusting.

It's not sparring on politics. It's an attempt of demeaning a person, by people who can't form any other argument.

This analysis by NYT makes interesting reading.

*missing text reads "had large staff shortages because of a delayed reopening of borders after the lockdowns".

mudguard

2113 posts

Uber Geek

#3024872 20-Jan-2023 15:48

Handsomedan:

I think she was an awful leader of an awful government and frankly the country has gone backwards massively on her watch, but she wasn't personally responsible.

The thing is, what metric do you base performance on? GDP? Immigration? I work in finance and a big part of it is reliant on the rural sector, but also in the leisure sector. I can tell you one thing, the leisure side absolutely exploded during the pandemic, the complete opposite of our normal convention was that when things get tight, the toys stop being bought.

We might see that now, but the stuff we deal with is so backlogged that there isn't the financial risk as there's no stock.

And I certainly see a few echo chambers, from many who I interact with and assuming the rural community they're involved with, one might infer many farmers are pro National. And that's fine. But would adding all the farmers up nationwide equal a small town? So for all the noise one bloc might make, a single town voting the other way rules them out.

That's where I get frustrated, friends who earn very good money thinking that it's the norm, and if you're earning over $60k it probably looks pretty good to someone in South Auckland/Dunedin etc.

johno1234

2793 posts

Uber Geek

#3024874 20-Jan-2023 15:49

quickymart:

Tom Scott? The bloke who used to write for The Listener? (showing my age here).

I vaguely remember Muldoon being referred to as "Piggy Muldoon" but can't remember much more in the way of insults past that. Maybe I was too young/shielded to remember.

This Herald article looks at all the possible contenders and has a short outline on how her successor is elected: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jacinda-ardern-quits-the-contenders-for-next-prime-minister/YMPLTADJSVGO7NBZRYELDJWBCI/?ref=readmore

Heh! Different Tom Scott... that one we grew up with as kids. a genius with gentle, humorous but pointed cartoons.

1 | ... | 105 | 106 | 107 | 108 | 109 | 110 | 111 | 112 | 113 | 114 | 115 | ... | 118