Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Networkn
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#3026908 25-Jan-2023 10:47

I saw someone passive aggressively complaining about the politics threads in the annoy thread. Amazing.

I too am overseas. I am with a lot of Americans and British who, have a positive opinion of Ardern.

They all believe we had a single lockdown, our vaccinations programme led the world, and believe NZ is in some sort of world misery immune paradise where no kids are hungry, houses are plentiful and cost effective.

I am not kidding. What most British and Americans know about Ardern and in fact life in NZ could fit on a postage stamp. Lastly, what people who don't live here think of NZ is about as relevant as my opinions on gun control are to your average American.

When you live somewhere for a year then you have a small view of what life is actually like. We have lots of good things in NZ, it's apparent more so when you travel, but it's also been a very tough few years for many many many Kiwis and internationally that doesn't get reported.

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#3026947 25-Jan-2023 12:28

Not pointing at anyone in this thread, but to public opinion on politics in New Zealand. This is a collection of comments from LinkedIn connections:

If your own insecurities are fuelling your rage towards a female leader that wasn't afraid to show empathy, then shut up.

If you don't have the decency to see the human behind the leader, then shut up.

If you're not willing to recognise the contributions of a woman leader and would rather tear them down, then shut up.

If you're ignorant enough to not see how your attitude is holding other women back, then shut up.

If you can't see that treating people this way is harming our democracy, then shut up.

Your parents should have taught you this already but just as a reminder.....if you haven't got anything nice to say, then shut the fuck up. Seriously.

Much respect to Jacinda Arden for her courageous leadership during the toughest of times. I am totally relieved for you.

Her resignation is a temperature check on the state of our public discourse and it's running way too hot out there. Dial it down Aotearoa.

This isn’t just about Jacinda Ardern. I am deeply saddened by the growing disconnection between people, and the lack of empathy and understanding of the personal impact of decisions in no win, impossible situations.

There is a growing ease of which hatred and violence is fantasied, particularly against women and minority groups, that dehumanises the “them” in the minds of the “us”, making that step into action all the more possible.

Let’s agree, or disagree, with respect and curiosity.

These two are basically pointing to the new society we live in. Where people think it's ok to say demeaning things and lie about others. Where people trust without verifying. People think it's "us vs others" instead of "everyone". And most importantly where people take umbrage when their long-held privileges are shared with others they perceive as "different".

The hate going to the PM Jacinda Ardern was filled with name-calling and positioning her as something she was not.

We live in a time where being nice to each other is called "woke" and some people use the word as a pejorative when in reality it shows they are the ones who create division.

K8Toledo

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#3026950 25-Jan-2023 13:09

networkn: I saw someone passive aggressively complaining about the politics threads in the annoy thread. Amazing.

I too am overseas. I am with a lot of Americans and British who, have a positive opinion of Ardern.

They all believe we had a single lockdown, our vaccinations programme led the world, and believe NZ is in some sort of world misery immune paradise where no kids are hungry, houses are plentiful and cost effective.

I am not kidding. What most British and Americans know about Ardern and in fact life in NZ could fit on a postage stamp. Lastly, what people who don't live here think of NZ is about as relevant as my opinions on gun control are to your average American.

When you live somewhere for a year then you have a small view of what life is actually like. We have lots of good things in NZ, it's apparent more so when you travel, but it's also been a very tough few years for many many many Kiwis and internationally that doesn't get reported.

I think this screenshot is self explanatory.

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#3026965 25-Jan-2023 13:48

freitasm:

These two are basically pointing to the new society we live in. Where people think it's ok to say demeaning things and lie about others. Where people trust without verifying. People think it's "us vs others" instead of "everyone". And most importantly where people take umbrage when their long-held privileges are shared with others they perceive as "different".

There is only one driver for that. Social media.

Probably the greatest evil mankind has invented. It should come with a warning label. Highly Socially Corrosive.

networkn

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#3027055 25-Jan-2023 16:00

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/tvnz-breakfast-hosts-shooting-trump-doll-sparks-outrage-network-apologises/U2LDB5IQ45AFHP72FFWFDTFLWY/

And right on queue these 4 Muppets from a freaking mainstream NZ media outlet pull this. Why do they still have jobs? We are now telling the NZ public it's ok to shoot at politicians because we don't like them?

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#3027063 25-Jan-2023 16:33

networkn: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/tvnz-breakfast-hosts-shooting-trump-doll-sparks-outrage-network-apologises/U2LDB5IQ45AFHP72FFWFDTFLWY/

And right on queue these 4 Muppets from a freaking mainstream NZ media outlet pull this. Why do they still have jobs? We are now telling the NZ public it's ok to shoot at politicians because we don't like them?

They are click baiting to try and keep their jobs.

Never mind I have given up on the news media in NZ. Its probably over a year since I have watched ad supported TV in NZ and a decade or more since I bought newspaper.

Good reporting has long gone, facts do not matter, its likes, clicks, and how "entertaining" it is now. Not worth paying for.

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#3027067 25-Jan-2023 16:43

networkn: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/tvnz-breakfast-hosts-shooting-trump-doll-sparks-outrage-network-apologises/U2LDB5IQ45AFHP72FFWFDTFLWY/

And right on queue these 4 Muppets from a freaking mainstream NZ media outlet pull this. Why do they still have jobs? We are now telling the NZ public it's ok to shoot at politicians because we don't like them?

It's the sneering air of superiority that annoys me. Hillary Clinton called Trump voters, all 70 million or so of them, "Deplorables". Pure arrogance. Just because you disagree with a group, just because you know they are wrong, doesn't excuse disrespecting them as a group. These TVNZ clowns are making the same mistake and exhibiting their arrogance.

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#3027081 25-Jan-2023 17:27

johno1234:

It's the sneering air of superiority that annoys me. Hillary Clinton called Trump voters, all 70 million or so of them, "Deplorables". Pure arrogance. Just because you disagree with a group, just because you know they are wrong, doesn't excuse disrespecting them as a group. These TVNZ clowns are making the same mistake and exhibiting their arrogance.

What has that to do with anything? Disdain for the entire voting bloc of a political persuasion isn't something I see in New Zealand, and even this media example doesn't demonstrate it. Even looking at all the hate for Jacinda Ardern, it's targeted at her and her party (I would never defend this, just putting it into context) - no-one is calling Labour - or National - voters "deplorables" except maybe some very fringe groups.

I don't see an "air of superiority" in this article at all, just people being really dumb and not thinking about the optics of their actions.

Rikkitic

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#3027084 25-Jan-2023 17:42

networkn: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/tvnz-breakfast-hosts-shooting-trump-doll-sparks-outrage-network-apologises/U2LDB5IQ45AFHP72FFWFDTFLWY/

And right on queue these 4 Muppets from a freaking mainstream NZ media outlet pull this. Why do they still have jobs? We are now telling the NZ public it's ok to shoot at politicians because we don't like them?

Totally inappropriate and incredibly stupid. I didn't see it but it sounds completely brain dead to me. Those idiots need to all apologise individually on air and be made to attend a civics class.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#3027086 25-Jan-2023 18:19

johno1234:

It's the sneering air of superiority that annoys me. Hillary Clinton called Trump voters, all 70 million or so of them, "Deplorables". Pure arrogance. Just because you disagree with a group, just because you know they are wrong, doesn't excuse disrespecting them as a group. These TVNZ clowns are making the same mistake and exhibiting their arrogance.

Agree. You can disagree, and with Trump thats easy, push your own wares and own it. Take the high road.

tdgeek

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#3027087 25-Jan-2023 18:22

Rikkitic:

Totally inappropriate and incredibly stupid. I didn't see it but it sounds completely brain dead to me. Those idiots need to all apologise individually on air and be made to attend a civics class.

I dont do apologies. Public air, screwed up. "Im so sorry I didnt mean that" Doesnt wash with me. I get your point for sure, but too many public or sporting figures screw up and and apology is all thats needed. Maybe I can rob a bank tomorrow, apologise, all good. Ownership

Rikkitic

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#3027093 25-Jan-2023 19:14

tdgeek:

I dont do apologies. Public air, screwed up. "Im so sorry I didnt mean that" Doesnt wash with me. I get your point for sure, but too many public or sporting figures screw up and and apology is all thats needed. Maybe I can rob a bank tomorrow, apologise, all good. Ownership

There is an element of humiliation in a public apology, which in this case is entirely warranted.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#3027195 26-Jan-2023 01:35

I think even fake shooting a politician on mainstream primetime TV should get you fired. People have lost their careers for less. Joel Wheeler made fun of someone in an Asian accent and wasn't seen at Sky for 3 months. How much worse is this than that?

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#3027502 26-Jan-2023 13:28

Rikkitic:

First, I don’t doubt your full throated condemnation of threats or extremist comments and I never have. I know you would never endorse this kind of thing. You misunderstood my comment.

Second, I wasn’t specifically targeting you, but several posters who have again (since JA’s announcement) been making a point of rehashing all of the government’s 'failings' here.

My comment was in reference to this post by @freitasm citing the michaelwest.com.au figures on our government’s performance. I was wondering what the most vociferous government critics here thought about it. I found it striking that there was no response whatsoever. This is what I was referring to, not the vicious attacks on Jacinda Ardern.

I don't consider myself to be among the most vociferous of government critics (see below for why) but I'll take the bait anyway.

In my family, it is the females (not all of them), spread over three generations, who are the most vocal about this government and especially about Jacinda. If a male were to make the same comments, there would be accusations of misogyny. My comments are quite tame in comparison.

I didn't think the article you linked was worth commenting on but since you brought it up. My first thoughts were a statement attributed to Winston Churchill. There's lies, damn lies, then there's statistics.

The first question you need to ask is, What is the writer trying to show? In this case make a case that the Labour government of PM Jacinda Ardern has done pretty well. Based on the figures in that article things look not too bad. However some of those figures need the parameters used to obtain them clarified.

Are we comparing apples to apples between countries. Are the same metrics used in each country to get those figures? For example how are employment/unemployment numbers calculated? Is it the total number of people between certain ages? What are retirement ages in the various countries? Is unemployment the number of people out of work actively looking for work or is it the total number working age people out of work?

We have all seen the battles of statistics around the effectiveness of vaccines. Until the parameters are clarified they are just a number that may or may not mean anything.

I think a good measure of a government is how well they did the things they said they were going to do. The Ardern government had many lofty aspirations when it came to power in 2017? On too many occasions they aimed for the stars and just managed to clip the grass.

So often during the Covid pandemic they patted themselves on the back when the reality was different to what they said was happening. e.g. Going early on the lockdown when we really didn't, Plenty of PPE for front line staff when there wasn't, Front of the queue for the vaccines when we weren't, are just a few examples. The podium of truth which really was an opportunity to electioneer and tell the country what a great job you're doing.

Governments are always going to be criticised as you cannot be all things to all people. However when you continually talk yourself up and don't deliver there is going to be a bigger backlash than usual.

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#3028114 27-Jan-2023 23:44

johno1234: It's the sneering air of superiority that annoys me. Hillary Clinton called Trump voters, all 70 million or so of them, "Deplorables". Pure arrogance. Just because you disagree with a group, just because you know they are wrong, doesn't excuse disrespecting them as a group.

Not exactly. At an LGBT fundraiser while making a speech about Republican efforts to legalize discrimination against people of the LGBT - Clinton said: "You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?". Ie; Half

Tldr; Clinton actually called half of Trump supporters deplorable.

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