Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Networkn
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#1979607 19-Mar-2018 10:12

rjt123:
networkn:

I also agree with your comments that only idiots get drunk... it's good to know what type of people make up Young Labour - speaks volumes about the future labour party 😋

I think one would be a fool to suggest it's never happened in other parties too.

Agreed. I just couldn't resist the dig... As someone mentioned in another thread, the virtues of youth wings in a political party are dubious. The problem was the volume of supply (supply alcohol in bulk and it will be consumed in bulk) and the lack of control.

I think we should try and resist the urge for a dig a little harder. I know it can be difficult, I struggle occasionally myself, but it lowers the tone.

gulfa

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#1979633 19-Mar-2018 10:31

I see my post has caused reactions but not answers to the problem of the original post. It was not meant to stray away from the initial post but was meant to be an attempt to get suggestions on how we can deal with problems such as the one outside of Waihi and other locations (lawyers Rugby clubs Golf clubs etc) The labour party have already responded by banning such meetings (a positive note, may be a bit late,reporting to the police I agree with but it is not the law.) I made my suggestion and I was looking for other suggestions from posters about dealing with this type of issue especially after the news from the south over the weekend (intoxicated people smashing cars etc)

If the term "idiot" has caused some of you concern, I make no apologies I consider those who get drunk, are or have been are. Education in my opinion is also the key. I am sure that if people were told the truth about alcohol and it related dangers to our bodies they would probably ease up on the drink. The anti-smoking lobby seems to be having success through education. The sexual abuse issue is huge and must be dealt with. Apart from education??? How???

networkn

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#1979635 19-Mar-2018 10:33

gulfa:

I see my post has caused reactions but not answers to the problem of the original post. It was not meant to stray away from the initial post but was meant to be an attempt to get suggestions on how we can deal with problems such as the one outside of Waihi and other locations (lawyers Rugby clubs Golf clubs etc) The labour party have already responded by banning such meetings (a positive note, may be a bit late,reporting to the police I agree with but it is not the law.) I made my suggestion and I was looking for other suggestions from posters about dealing with this type of issue especially after the news from the south over the weekend (intoxicated people smashing cars etc)

If the term "idiot" has caused some of you concern, I make no apologies I consider those who get drunk, are or have been are. Education in my opinion is also the key. I am sure that if people were told the truth about alcohol and it related dangers to our bodies they would probably ease up on the drink. The anti-smoking lobby seems to be having success through education. The sexual abuse issue is huge and must be dealt with. Apart from education??? How???

I posted a link to a thread I created to discuss this topic. Scroll upward.

This is a huge topic on it's own and would derail this thread from it's primary focus of discussing holding Labour to account in it's hopefully single term ;)

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#1979654 19-Mar-2018 10:45

gulfa:
The sexual abuse issue is huge and must be dealt with. Apart from education??? How???

Culture and values need to underly any education or it will make no difference.

Rikkitic

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#1979677 19-Mar-2018 11:05

networkn:

Heh, nice try at a topic change. The time to stop giving Labour a hard time is when they decide to handle the matter in a manner that accepts responsibility and holds those responsible, PROPERLY accountable. Much lesser "scandals" during Nationals leadership went on for MONTHS. I expect this to as well, mostly due to their failure to handle it properly even after JA became aware of it. She actually made it much worse. It's a shame that in an effort to change the topic, you had to stoop to trying to implicate others. Not a lot of responsibility taking going on there. The problem for me is that it's indicative of a lack of leadership at Labour and these are the people tasked with running our country. If your confidence hasn't been dented by this, then I am unsure what would. It's a monumental cluster muck.

Alcohol is a problem in our country, I have a pretty reasonable understanding of this, however, it comes back to personal responsibility, education and legislation.

The change of the legal drinking age in NZ, down from 20 to 18 has had nothing but negative effects on our drinking culture. It didn't come with education on how to drink responsibly, and I think this is something that needs to be addressed at home and at school at varying levels. Sports clubs etc have a part to play. Bottle shops on every corner are a disgrace as well, and you see it more in lower socio-economic areas. This was a failure of the National Government to do something about it, and it's not even on Labours radar in any meaningful way.

When the drinking age was 20, you had some 20-year-olds giving 17/18-year-olds alcohol, maybe occasionally younger. With the drinking age at 18, 18-year-olds are giving 14 and 15-year-olds alcohol, which is EXPONENTIALLY worse for what I'd hope are very obvious reasons. A 20-year-old makes better decisions in most instances than an 18-year-old. My wife has worked in A&E and seen kids as young as 9 drunk at A&E. Parents should be charged with neglect for this.

I have yet to meet a single police officer that thinks a lower drinking age was a good idea.

The alcohol problem should really have it's own topic.

Apart from the first paragraph, I agree with this post. When the drinking age was lowered, I cheered. As someone who believes in personal choice (and personal responsibility), I thought it was nonsense to say people were adults at 18 but not yet adult enough to drink. Either you were, or you weren't. But I was wrong and I am happy to admit it. For whatever reason, kiwis, especially younger ones, cannot cope with alcohol. We have a crap drinking culture. For New Zealand, lowering the drinking age was a mistake.

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Rikkitic

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#1979679 19-Mar-2018 11:09

networkn:

I think we should try and resist the urge for a dig a little harder. I know it can be difficult, I struggle occasionally myself, but it lowers the tone.

You are on a roll today. I wish all of your posts were this sensible.

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#1979775 19-Mar-2018 12:28

To be fair, his posts are almost always backed up with data and not emotions.

networkn

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#1979777 19-Mar-2018 12:33

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I think we should try and resist the urge for a dig a little harder. I know it can be difficult, I struggle occasionally myself, but it lowers the tone.

You are on a roll today. I wish all of your posts were this sensible.

Will you be following my example then? ;)

Rikkitic

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#1979846 19-Mar-2018 13:29

mrfte:

To be fair, his posts are almost always backed up with data and not emotions.

To be fair, that 'data' may not always be the same as objective fact. Just because you quote someone else doesn't necessarily make it true. Just look at Trump and Fox.

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#1979847 19-Mar-2018 13:30

networkn:

Will you be following my example then? ;)

Are you saying we should start over? I will speak the truth as I see it, as I'm sure you also will.

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networkn

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#1979872 19-Mar-2018 14:06

Rikkitic:

Are you saying we should start over? I will speak the truth as I see it, as I'm sure you also will.

Anyone who knows me personally would know me to be a principled person and honest as well, I'd like to think. I judge myself and the commentary I make and how I behave as a human being, online or in person on how I would feel if my kids could see it. I am far from perfect, but I always try.

I don't post nonsense here to wind people up (though sometimes occasionally it can be quite an amusing side effect), and equally, I am prepared to back what I say up with some evidence or at least am able to justify my feelings on a particular matter based on my experience.

In short, I was already posting the truth as I see it, or understand it. It's not in my nature to do anything differently. I am also genuinely open to a change of heart if someone can provide irrefutable facts. I have yet to see any posted. I have seen people suggest that she polls well as a leader, but this doesn't make her a good leader. Surely you can see this?

In my view, Jacinda is a poor leader, partly because she is too inexperienced. The latest example being how she handled not at least suspending Kirton and co until the investigation was completed was the perfect example of this. By refusing to even entertain or CONSIDER firing Kirton and co for their part in this debacle shows she has already determined prior to the conclusion (and start I may add) of the investigation that his actions weren't sackable. Why even have an investigation?

I have managed staff since I was 18 Years old, and whilst I am not a perfect manager, there are basic things that managing people requires. One of those things is not predetermining an outcome. A lot of employment cases you see where someone tells someone to get F'd and then manages to get 20K in compensation is not because the offence wasn't sackable, but that the process wasn't followed. Suspending them (paid) is the responsible thing to do. If the results of this investigation is as damning as it could be, she will have no choice but to sack him and potentially others. She will look like a fool for categorically refusing to consider it earlier and saying she wouldn't under any circumstances.

She talks a good talk, but so far, she isn't walking it.

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mrfte

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#1979888 19-Mar-2018 14:37

Yup. Rank amateur.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102394885/ardern-says-government-actively-considering-call-to-end-oil-exploration

Rikkitic

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#1979890 19-Mar-2018 14:44

networkn:

She talks a good talk, but so far, she isn't walking it.

Good post. I see nothing here to disagree with. I did feel in the beginning that you were looking for reasons not to like this government, and you were not giving JA a fair go, and I'm still not prepared to say they are as hopeless as you seem to feel, but I also agree that their performance leaves something to be desired up to now. I continue to hope that they will improve and succeed in implementing some policies that will benefit the whole country. Philosophically I feel closer to Labour/Greens ideals than those of National, but I won't defend them if they do not live up to those. They need to lift their game, the sooner the better.

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Pumpedd

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#1979899 19-Mar-2018 14:58

Rikkitic:

networkn:

She talks a good talk, but so far, she isn't walking it.

Good post. I see nothing here to disagree with. I did feel in the beginning that you were looking for reasons not to like this government, and you were not giving JA a fair go, and I'm still not prepared to say they are as hopeless as you seem to feel, but I also agree that their performance leaves something to be desired up to now. I continue to hope that they will improve and succeed in implementing some policies that will benefit the whole country. Philosophically I feel closer to Labour/Greens ideals than those of National, but I won't defend them if they do not live up to those. They need to lift their game, the sooner the better.

It is time for you to quit throwing personal shots at people who just express their opinions. I feel every time I express an opinion that is not along your way of thinking I get chucked a cheap shot ...eg calling me a parrot or whatever. I am tired of it as nobody here really does that to you, so time to sharpen up and be a bit more forgiving to other people posts. There are a lot of good posts here by most authors and when we agree we post a plus without the need to break it down into pieces for a full autopsy.

Rikkitic

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#1979910 19-Mar-2018 15:06

Pumpedd:

It is time for you to quit throwing personal shots at people who just express their opinions. I feel every time I express an opinion that is not along your way of thinking I get chucked a cheap shot ...eg calling me a parrot or whatever. I am tired of it as nobody here really does that to you, so time to sharpen up and be a bit more forgiving to other people posts. There are a lot of good posts here by most authors and when we agree we post a plus without the need to break it down into pieces for a full autopsy.

Most of your posts to or about me have been personal shots in response to posts of mine that were not even directed at you. Networkn does not need your help or support. He is articulate, intelligent and perfectly capable of standing up for himself. If you post about anything other than your personal opinion of me, I will respond in the same spirit. I suggest we put an end to this now.

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