Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Networkn
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#1979979 19-Mar-2018 16:37

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12015863

This is one of the few positive bits of legislation this Government has passed.

DaveB

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#1980092 19-Mar-2018 19:40

Rikkitic:

Pumpedd:

It is time for you to quit throwing personal shots at people who just express their opinions. I feel every time I express an opinion that is not along your way of thinking I get chucked a cheap shot ...eg calling me a parrot or whatever. I am tired of it as nobody here really does that to you, so time to sharpen up and be a bit more forgiving to other people posts. There are a lot of good posts here by most authors and when we agree we post a plus without the need to break it down into pieces for a full autopsy.

Most of your posts to or about me have been personal shots in response to posts of mine that were not even directed at you. Networkn does not need your help or support. He is articulate, intelligent and perfectly capable of standing up for himself. If you post about anything other than your personal opinion of me, I will respond in the same spirit. I suggest we put an end to this now.

Well stated Rikkitic !

Pumpped, just be thankful I did not reply to your adolescent, cheap and very personal shot at me in the other thread. The only thing that stopped me was my worry that if I replied the way I wanted to, I may have been banned. This is a politics forum. We are all in the right AND the wrong here (depending of course on your personal opinion on the day).

Now, on with challenging Rikkitic ..............

Pumpedd

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#1980115 19-Mar-2018 20:11

DaveB:

Rikkitic:

Pumpedd:

It is time for you to quit throwing personal shots at people who just express their opinions. I feel every time I express an opinion that is not along your way of thinking I get chucked a cheap shot ...eg calling me a parrot or whatever. I am tired of it as nobody here really does that to you, so time to sharpen up and be a bit more forgiving to other people posts. There are a lot of good posts here by most authors and when we agree we post a plus without the need to break it down into pieces for a full autopsy.

Most of your posts to or about me have been personal shots in response to posts of mine that were not even directed at you. Networkn does not need your help or support. He is articulate, intelligent and perfectly capable of standing up for himself. If you post about anything other than your personal opinion of me, I will respond in the same spirit. I suggest we put an end to this now.

Well stated Rikkitic !

Pumpped, just be thankful I did not reply to your adolescent, cheap and very personal shot at me in the other thread. The only thing that stopped me was my worry that if I replied the way I wanted to, I may have been banned. This is a politics forum. We are all in the right AND the wrong here (depending of course on your personal opinion on the day).

Now, on with challenging Rikkitic ..............

Stop slagging people then...

networkn

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#1980715 20-Mar-2018 21:08

Rikkitic:

networkn:

She talks a good talk, but so far, she isn't walking it.

Good post. I see nothing here to disagree with. I did feel in the beginning that you were looking for reasons not to like this government, and you were not giving JA a fair go, and I'm still not prepared to say they are as hopeless as you seem to feel, but I also agree that their performance leaves something to be desired up to now. I continue to hope that they will improve and succeed in implementing some policies that will benefit the whole country. Philosophically I feel closer to Labour/Greens ideals than those of National, but I won't defend them if they do not live up to those. They need to lift their game, the sooner the better.

I am super torn in how to approach Labour. Because I strongly disagree with the vast majority of their policies for a variety of reasons, most of which I have previously outlined, I feel that every policy they cut back or don't deliver on is them doing less damage to the country (and is a good thing). On the other hand, I feel they need to be held accountable for every policy they don't deliver on or pare back, because they promised them. I view their inability to deliver on them as being a result of a proper lack of planning and foresight, which in my view is even less forgivable because they had 9 years to come up with them.

Rikkitic

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#1980730 20-Mar-2018 21:39

I have no wish to argue with you any more on this, but is it not fair to say that National also had nine years to fix the things Labour is now wrestling with? The housing crisis is usually the first thing mentioned, and I do understand that multiple governments allowed this to get to its present state, but surely National could have done something in the last nine years? I think child poverty and treatment of beneficiary recipients are other justifiable areas of criticism, and of course there are also others. Labour isn't off to a brilliant start, but it has not yet had even one year in government. I have not given up all hope.

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Geektastic

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#1980738 20-Mar-2018 21:58

Rikkitic:

I have no wish to argue with you any more on this, but is it not fair to say that National also had nine years to fix the things Labour is now wrestling with? The housing crisis is usually the first thing mentioned, and I do understand that multiple governments allowed this to get to its present state, but surely National could have done something in the last nine years? I think child poverty and treatment of beneficiary recipients are other justifiable areas of criticism, and of course there are also others. Labour isn't off to a brilliant start, but it has not yet had even one year in government. I have not given up all hope.

Done what? It is not a government responsibility to build houses, it is a private sector responsibility. The government provided an era of low interest rates (well, low-ish interest rates when compared to a few places where mortgages at 0% were extant!) which should have enabled development to proceed, it does not directly control the supply of land or the local council processes and costs, it does not control how much people earn in order to be able to pay for their mortgages or much else really.

Surely everyone can now see that expecting 'the government' to wave a magic wand and solve this is something that belongs in a Harry Potter book, not the real world?

Help To Buy might work in some form - you could divert some of the Super Fund cash to it as a form of investment.

Frankly I see little evidence of sophistication or intelligence in the government just now. As someone I heard on RNZ yesterday said "It's as though the adults have gone on holiday and the children are playing Politicians!"

networkn

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#1980739 20-Mar-2018 21:59

Rikkitic:

I have no wish to argue with you any more on this, but is it not fair to say that National also had nine years to fix the things Labour is now wrestling with? The housing crisis is usually the first thing mentioned, and I do understand that multiple governments allowed this to get to its present state, but surely National could have done something in the last nine years? I think child poverty and treatment of beneficiary recipients are other justifiable areas of criticism, and of course there are also others. Labour isn't off to a brilliant start, but it has not yet had even one year in government. I have not given up all hope.

It's key policies have almost all been neutered. It's about to, if it hasn't already, downgraded it's targets for child poverty. It's already dropped the housing target by 55,000, and the new target includes houses being built by others it has no part of. Most builders including the top 5 in NZ firmly believe they won't even reach that. I predict that after 3 years the housing situation won't have improved much and will be within the margin of error as to whether Labour played any part any way.

Nationals areas of focus were financial, bring the country back into surplus. It achieved what it said it would largely. Everyone misses targets occasionally, things like Natural Disasters and GFC's are just some examples of the sorts of other issues Governments have to face, that contribute, but barely any policies are in their original state from Labour. Without National's choice to focus on finance, there wouldn't be money for Labours current policies, even in their reduced state.

I agree, it's early days, but when you see a kid playing with matches, you don't let them continue and wait for the flames to be racing up the curtains before you say something. I am not suggesting it's quite as bad as that, but the idea is the same.

Fair enough you haven't given up all hope, but I don't think it's unreasonable to allow others to criticise them for their mistakes and missteps. I also think it's fair to acknowledge that so far a number of predictions by the "anti-labour" brigade here have already come true.

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Reciprocity

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#1980801 21-Mar-2018 07:50

The government has announced plans for a review, a working group, an advisory group, or an investigation, every four days since it took power, despite having nine years in opposition to develop policies.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018636926/govt-announces-39-reviews-groups-investigations-in-5-months

6FIEND

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#1980846 21-Mar-2018 08:54

Reciprocity:
The government has announced plans for a review, a working group, an advisory group, or an investigation, every four days since it took power, despite having nine years in opposition to develop policies.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018636926/govt-announces-39-reviews-groups-investigations-in-5-months

It's a pretty clear indication that this government has no idea what to do if it has to continually get external help to advise them how to do their job.

I note that @CheckpointRNZ tweeted a follow up that said:

And the real number of reviews, working groups an investigations underway is actually higher than one every four days. We only counted ones announced by Ministers.

networkn

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#1980849 21-Mar-2018 08:56

So I guess I wasn't so far off with my comment of "Another day ending in Y, another working group/review.

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#1980854 21-Mar-2018 09:12

networkn:

So I guess I wasn't so far off with my comment of "Another day ending in Y, another working group/review.

Indeed.

...and ZERO progress on some of their flagship policies.

rjt123

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#1980862 21-Mar-2018 09:23

Rikkitic:
I have no wish to argue with you any more on this, but is it not fair to say that National also had nine years to fix the things Labour is now wrestling with? The housing crisis is usually the first thing mentioned, and I do understand that multiple governments allowed this to get to its present state, but surely National could have done something in the last nine years? I think child poverty and treatment of beneficiary recipients are other justifiable areas of criticism, and of course there are also others. Labour isn't off to a brilliant start, but it has not yet had even one year in government. I have not given up all hope.

The point is, if Labour care about the issue (i.e. make a big deal out of it) then they are obligated therefore to fix it. And therefore are expected to have a plan to fix it. I don't think National cared as much about housing affordability as labour, so that's why they didn't do much to change it. Therefore, the onus rests on labour to fix it, blaming National doesn't improve the situation.

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#1980873 21-Mar-2018 09:42

@Rikkitic

I notice that you were even-handed enough to acknowledge that "multiple governments allowed this to get to its present state".

But are you aware that house prices increased at a greater rate under the 9 years of the previous Labour Government than they did under National?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/98475352/labour-governments-have-overseen-greatest-house-price-inflation-data-shows

Rikkitic

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#1980874 21-Mar-2018 09:43

Geektastic:

Done what? It is not a government responsibility to build houses, it is a private sector responsibility. The government provided an era of low interest rates (well, low-ish interest rates when compared to a few places where mortgages at 0% were extant!) which should have enabled development to proceed, it does not directly control the supply of land or the local council processes and costs, it does not control how much people earn in order to be able to pay for their mortgages or much else really.

Surely everyone can now see that expecting 'the government' to wave a magic wand and solve this is something that belongs in a Harry Potter book, not the real world?

Is it not government responsibility to provide basic services and create conditions for adequate living standards? Otherwise why have government at all? I have just been reading how New Zealand's tax system makes investment in housing a better option than other forms of retirement savings because (unlike real estate) the other forms are taxed. Apparently New Zealand is fairly unique in this. I would think this would certainly be an area of government responsibility and the failure of governments on both sides of the political divide to address it have resulted in the current unsatisfactory situation.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#1980879 21-Mar-2018 09:51

networkn:

Fair enough you haven't given up all hope, but I don't think it's unreasonable to allow others to criticise them for their mistakes and missteps. I also think it's fair to acknowledge that so far a number of predictions by the "anti-labour" brigade here have already come true.

I voted for the Greens partly because I was voting for change. Three more years of National would have meant three more years of the same under a conservative Catholic and I didn't want that. National had done whatever they were going to do and the country deserved something better. I couldn't quite bring myself to vote Labour, and I didn't want the Greens to disappear, so I voted for them. When Labour and the Greens became part of the government, I had hopes of a fresh start. Whatever one's politics, this country has real problems that need to be addressed, and National wasn't doing that. I still hope the present government will. If it fails to do so, voters can pass judgement at the next election.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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