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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections
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nathan
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  #2577663 2-Oct-2020 05:13
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tdgeek:Next time they need to turn the mike off when its not their turn

 

 

next debate is town hall format so more moderated by the crowd

 

but do we really want censorship?  I'm not sure it ends in the way some think it does - being positive for Biden

 

The debates are pointless, there are only 4% undecided, and despite us not learning anything, people did learn something - who, undecided is going to turn that on and think, "Yeah, Trump is my man"

 

Handing the moderators that power on the microphone has implications - do you really think they are going to be fair,  they will never take that power back once the standard is set.  Then does it go into Senate debates, once the norm is set

 

Do we want Politicians to be able to credibly claim, the other side, had their mic cut off? 

 

If Trump wants his 90min debate to come across as an unhinged obnoxious idiot on double his dose of Adderall, that's his choice

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  #2577664 2-Oct-2020 05:25
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Fred99:

 

You're wrong.  Trump is a fascist

 

 

He's cut from the cloth of McDonalds not Mussolini.  Extremely dangerous but not a fascist.

 

Trump just embodies everything America has become - late stage capitalism

 

In order to be a good Dem these days you need to believe the doctrine that Trump is an aberration, a break from American history tradition, a singular threat taking the country over the brink.  It’s the central theory binding together the never-Trump republicans with the resistance democrat, it’s the central programming dictate of MSNBC, CNN and every other non-Fox News source.  Fox of course just flip the bad guy in the story.

 

This is late stage capitalism killing us - Trump embodies everything America has become – the end result of a society that loves celebrity and consumerism, a nation addicted to cheap schloppy crap, brains addled by the substance free titillation that passes for entertainment, bodies made fat and lazy by high fructose corn syrup and canola oil, addicted to sugar, with brains that binge

 

This country doesn’t have a moral compass, morals are selectively applied

 

 

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  #2577666 2-Oct-2020 06:33
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nathan:

 

tdgeek:Next time they need to turn the mike off when its not their turn

 

 

next debate is town hall format so more moderated by the crowd

 

but do we really want censorship?  I'm not sure it ends in the way some think it does - being positive for Biden

 

The debates are pointless, there are only 4% undecided, and despite us not learning anything, people did learn something - who, undecided is going to turn that on and think, "Yeah, Trump is my man"

 

Handing the moderators that power on the microphone has implications - do you really think they are going to be fair,  they will never take that power back once the standard is set.  Then does it go into Senate debates, once the norm is set

 

Do we want Politicians to be able to credibly claim, the other side, had their mic cut off? 

 

If Trump wants his 90min debate to come across as an unhinged obnoxious idiot on double his dose of Adderall, that's his choice

 

 

Censorship???? The debate showed there is censorship by one over talking the other, censoring his allowance to put his views forward. Allowing each to have their allocated 2 minutes talk time uninterrupted is not censorship. 

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  #2577667 2-Oct-2020 07:01
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tdgeek:

 

Censorship???? The debate showed there is censorship by one over talking the other, censoring his allowance to put his views forward. Allowing each to have their allocated 2 minutes talk time uninterrupted is not censorship. 

 

 

Trumps unhinged stage performance only makes it worse for Trump, for the very little undecided who watch.  2/3 the number of people watched the 1st debate as 2016.  1/3 the number they were expecting in 2020.

 

Even the 2 mins, Trump yells and raves and rants so loud you'll hear him thru Biden's mic anyway

 

It is censorship.  Who gets to control the mic, is it the moderator, is it the Director in the control room.  It does open a can of worms over silencing politicians, esp a Presidents

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  #2577689 2-Oct-2020 08:07
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I don't think Trump won many fans over with his carryon at the first debate. I hope for the rest of the debates he just learns how to shut up when told (something he very obviously hates).

 

I see CNN noticed the difference between the two leaders debates held yesterday too: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/01/asia/new-zealand-ardern-trump-election-debate-intl-hnk/index.html

 

 

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  #2577712 2-Oct-2020 08:11
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nathan:

 

Fred99:

 

You're wrong.  Trump is a fascist

 

 

He's cut from the cloth of McDonalds not Mussolini.  Extremely dangerous but not a fascist.

 

Trump just embodies everything America has become - late stage capitalism

 

 

He is fascist.  Your mainstream media needs to take the gloves off - and get rid of the notion that incumbents to the office of the POTUS have some higher purpose as if they'd been anointed by the Gods.  

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/internal-document-shows-trump-officials-were-told-make-comments-sympathetic-n1241581

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/01/us/trump-vs-biden?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/10/01/fascism-trump-riles-minnesota-supporters-racist-attack-somali-refugees

 

"Late stage capitalism" is a label for a copout excuse - as if it's an inevitable end-point, social democracy works well though imperfect - beats the crap out of the alternatives - especially the direction the US is heading.

 

 

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  #2577717 2-Oct-2020 08:28
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nathan:

 

It is censorship.  Who gets to control the mic, is it the moderator, is it the Director in the control room.  It does open a can of worms over silencing politicians, esp a Presidents

 

 

 

 

There's "no can of worms" nor should there be any obligation to provide a platform for every person and every view.  "Silencing" politicians isn't the consequence or purpose of moderation or censorship of a debate.  The participants volunteer to participate on the basis that they'll abide by clear rules - and if they don't then there should be consequences.  

 

"Silencing politicians" is what happens in Russia etc. judicially or extrajudicially.

 

 

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  #2577785 2-Oct-2020 08:43
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nathan:

 

Fred99:

 

You're wrong.  Trump is a fascist

 

 

He's cut from the cloth of McDonalds not Mussolini.  Extremely dangerous but not a fascist.

 

 

He is a fascist. He's fascinated with himself, he admires controlling power for the sake of it, he uses the administration machine to suppress opposing views, he is an ultra-nationalist.

 

He's a fascist.




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nathan
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  #2577788 2-Oct-2020 08:57
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Fred99:

 

There's "no can of worms" nor should there be any obligation to provide a platform for every person and every view.  "Silencing" politicians isn't the consequence or purpose of moderation or censorship of a debate.  The participants volunteer to participate on the basis that they'll abide by clear rules - and if they don't then there should be consequences.  

 

"Silencing politicians" is what happens in Russia etc. judicially or extrajudicially.

 

 

of course its a can of worms, a standard a norm will have been set

 

imagine when the mic is turned off, for a candidate that you don't hate, in 4, 8, 12 years time

 

imagine with AOCs mic is turned off in the Senate when she is arguing with Schumer

 

Trump lost the debate with his antics anyway

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  #2577798 2-Oct-2020 09:08
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Fred99:

 

There's "no can of worms" nor should there be any obligation to provide a platform for every person and every view. 

 

 

This guy might disagree with you there Fred :)

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12369521

 

 

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  #2577799 2-Oct-2020 09:08
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freitasm:

 

He is a fascist. He's fascinated with himself, he admires controlling power for the sake of it, he uses the administration machine to suppress opposing views, he is an ultra-nationalist.

 

He's a fascist.

 

 

figuratively speaking

 

Fascism isn't appropriate for describing the US in 2020 - there's a reason why Joe calls Trump an existential threat with little understanding of American democracy, instead of something absurd like a fascist.

 

The accusations of fascism leveled against Trump and some of his supporters distract attention from the real threat to democracy that Trump poses. Also highly unlikely to convince anyone other than liberals - it may indeed prove counterproductive - for some American voters it represents overkill from the left, another reason to distrust the candidate the left supports

 

 

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  #2577800 2-Oct-2020 09:10
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nathan:

 

freitasm:

 

He is a fascist. He's fascinated with himself, he admires controlling power for the sake of it, he uses the administration machine to suppress opposing views, he is an ultra-nationalist.

 

He's a fascist.

 

 

figuratively speaking

 

Fascism isn't appropriate for describing the US in 2020 - there's a reason why Joe calls Trump an existential threat with little understanding of American democracy, instead of something absurd like a fascist.

 

The accusations of fascism leveled against Trump and some of his supporters distract attention from the real threat to democracy that Trump poses. Also highly unlikely to convince anyone other than liberals - it may indeed prove counterproductive - for some American voters it represents overkill from the left, another reason to distrust the candidate the left supports

 

 

When someone says "Only I can fix it" and then does nothing right, you can think he's no different than Mussolini and his baloney.




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  #2577817 2-Oct-2020 09:36
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'This is how fascism comes to America, not with jackboots and salutes (although there have been salutes, and a whiff of violence) but with a television huckster, a phony billionaire, a textbook egomaniac “tapping into” popular resentments and insecurities, and with an entire national political party — out of ambition or blind party loyalty, or simply out of fear — falling into line behind him.' - Robert Kagan, 2016

 

 




Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 

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  #2577846 2-Oct-2020 10:53
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As must be obvious from my previous posts, I believe that Donald Trump is much more that an incompetent, lying idiot.

 

I think of him as a dangerous sociopath - a real and present danger to democracy in the USA and elsewhere.

 

RECOMMENDED READING:

 

The Atlantic - The Election That Could Break America

 

November 2020 Issue  [first published online on September 23, 2020.]

 

This is a long article - 15 minutes to read

 

In a chilling story in the Atlantic, anonymous Republicans said Trump is already planning to challenge election results.

 

extracts:

 


Let us not hedge about one thing. Donald Trump may win or lose, but he will never concede.

 

Not under any circumstance. Not during the Interregnum* and not afterward. 

 

If compelled in the end to vacate his office, Trump will insist from exile, as long as he draws breath, that the contest was rigged. ...

 



 

 

Trump’s behavior and declared intent leave no room to suppose that he will accept the public’s verdict if the vote is going against him. 

 

He lies prodigiously - to manipulate events, to secure advantage, to dodge accountability, and to ward off injury to his pride. 

 

An election produces the perfect distillate of all those motives.

 

Pathology may exert the strongest influence on Trump’s choices during the Interregnum. 

 

Well-supported arguments, some of them in this magazine, have made the case that Trump fits the diagnostic criteria for psychopathy and narcissism. 

 

Either disorder, by its medical definition, would render him all but incapable of accepting defeat. ...

 

 


* The Interregnum is a period during which the normal functions of government or control are suspended - the "lame duck season".

 




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  #2577847 2-Oct-2020 11:00
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quickymart:

 

Fred99:

 

There's "no can of worms" nor should there be any obligation to provide a platform for every person and every view. 

 

 

This guy might disagree with you there Fred :)

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12369521

 

 

Thrown out by the court.

 

The Putin answer would be (if they became a threat to absolute power) for sh!t-stirrers like them to have an "accident".  When "Putin" throws someone out a window, you'll never find a record of an official order, the "patriots" know they can act extrajudicially and without consequence, facilitated by a nod and a wink.

 

Trump's heading the same way, endorsing paramilitary vigilante action / violence as "self-defence" against an "enemy" he's created.

 

 

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