Young Labour Summer Camp

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Forums › Politics › Young Labour Summer Camp - Feb 2018

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#2315148 11-Sep-2019 16:49

Wasn't so long ago when The National President was running for cover or have you conveniently forgotten. In todays situation how do we really know if all of these claims are genuine If so why hasn't at least one of them gone to the police. Didn't PB say that one was raped?There are so many people out there who will do all sorts of things and make claims and jump on the bandwagon. That's why I ask why don't you go to the police. If you are an employer would you sack or even stand a person down if it was a case of "he said she said" Look at the repercussions if you did stand them down and they were found to have had false accusations mad against them. I am surprised somebody hasn't shouted out Loud "Go to the Police" Now we have SB calling her a liar this from a guy who told one his members she was FN useless. Politics in Nz is becoming an undignified mess

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#2315154 11-Sep-2019 16:58

gulfa:

Wasn't so long ago when The National President was running for cover or have you conveniently forgotten.

Yeah... National is not better either. Instead of doing the right thing, they are quiet because they have their own problems - National Party defends handling of Young Nats incident.

It sounds like whataboutism but it is just to refresh everyone's memory and make sure you know regardless of which party you support you should support people first. And if you said nothing during the previous (National) incident, then unless your heart truly changed then it's not ok to play politics on top of someone's suffering.

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#2315169 11-Sep-2019 17:47

gulfa:

If you are an employer would you sack or even stand a person down if it was a case of "he said she said" Look at the repercussions if you did stand them down and they were found to have had false accusations mad against them.

Actually, as a responsible employer, in these sorts of incidents, I feel it would be entirely reasonable to stand someone down (with pay if appropriate) pending the results of an investigation, especially in the situation where the accuser would be in the presence of the accused otherwise.

This isn't he said she said over who took someones yoghurt in the work fridge.

This isn't the first incident of a similar type in recent times, and both times the PM has said she wasn't kept in the loop. Heads didn't roll the first time, but they need to this time.

GV27

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#2315188 11-Sep-2019 18:34

"Why haven't they gone to the police"

For a starters, because if they're victims, it's not anyone's business to tell them how to be a victim the correct way.

This entire thread is about the Labour Party's response. In a single post you've managed to suggest the alleged victims are somehow doing something wrong and drag the National Party into this, for some reason?

Whataboutism is one thing, but can we not victim-police people who, as the PM have acknowledged, have already been let down buy party mechanisms after they made complaints, just because they don't meet your own personal acid test for "what should victims do before I consider them merit-worthy?"

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#2315200 11-Sep-2019 19:17

Paula Bennett claims Grant Robertson and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's senior staff knew about alleged sexual assault

Thanks Paula, where were you in the past?

Mahon

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#2315201 11-Sep-2019 19:17

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

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#2315202 11-Sep-2019 19:21

GV27:

"Why haven't they gone to the police"

For a starters, because if they're victims, it's not anyone's business to tell them how to be a victim the correct way.

This entire thread is about the Labour Party's response. In a single post you've managed to suggest the alleged victims are somehow doing something wrong and drag the National Party into this, for some reason?

Whataboutism is one thing, but can we not victim-police people who, as the PM have acknowledged, have already been let down buy party mechanisms after they made complaints, just because they don't meet your own personal acid test for "what should victims do before I consider them merit-worthy?"

The drag the National party into this as these discussions are never about the issue they are about partisanship. Its ONLY about the knife.

The leader has gone. Should have gone earlier. Thats the news. But watch the response below....

tdgeek

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#2315203 11-Sep-2019 19:23

Mahon:

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

That may be true. Can you provide the link please? That proves she lied? Like I already said, these discussions are only about the knife and partisanship.

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#2315204 11-Sep-2019 19:25

Mahon:

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

Maybe you should wait to see if they are proven. Allegations are not evidence of anything.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2315205 11-Sep-2019 19:32

Rikkitic:

Mahon:

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

Maybe you should wait to see if they are proven. Allegations are not evidence of anything.

Incorrect :-) , how long have you been in this Politics section? Its never about facts its about your chosen party. Apart from ONE other poster here.

GV27

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#2315217 11-Sep-2019 19:38

tdgeek:

Mahon:

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

That may be true. Can you provide the link please? That proves she lied? Like I already said, these discussions are only about the knife and partisanship.

The only thing which indicates there is a discrepancy in Ardern's account is her response in my post above; where it indicates she had opinions about the proper avenues for a sexual harassment allegation a month before the Spinoff piece ran and she says she became aware of the nature of the complaints.

(I'm starting to wonder whether that response was an email reply to a question and whether someone slipped that by mistake in a 'dictated but not read'-type deal. I can't find any source for this quote at the time it was supposedly made so I am unable to tell, and whether it was made verbally at that point in time or reflecting on it after the fact, or in an email statement).

That for my mind is the key thing Ardern needs to clear up. It's the only real question hanging over her specific handling of this deal, without going into the politics of "How competent is she as a leader" debate, which is not related IMO.

That aside, someone at Robertson's level would be exactly the kind of person who could make a call that Jacinda not be involved for reasons of plausible deniability. That's not to say that he did, or that her not knowing is acceptable, but it is certainly possible, and makes more sense than Ardern deciding to mislead people in the vain hope that the details would never come out.

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tdgeek

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#2315221 11-Sep-2019 19:53

GV27:

tdgeek:

Mahon:

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

That may be true. Can you provide the link please? That proves she lied? Like I already said, these discussions are only about the knife and partisanship.

The only thing which indicates there is a discrepancy in Ardern's account is her response in my post above; where it indicates she had opinions about the proper avenues for a sexual harassment allegation a month before the Spinoff piece ran and she says she became aware of the nature of the complaints.

(I'm starting to wonder whether that response was an email reply to a question and whether someone slipped that by mistake in a 'dictated but not read'-type deal. I can't find any source for this quote at the time it was supposedly made so I am unable to tell, and whether it was made verbally at that point in time or reflecting on it after the fact, or in an email statement).

That for my mind is the key thing Ardern needs to clear up. It's the only real question hanging over her specific handling of this deal, without going into the politics of "How competent is she as a leader" debate, which is not related IMO.

That aside, someone at Robertson's level would be exactly the kind of person who could make a call that Jacinda not be involved for reasons of plausible deniability. That's not to say that he did, or that her not knowing is acceptable, but it is certainly possible, and makes more sense than Ardern deciding to mislead people in the vain hope that the details would never come out.

If someone in her/his party was behaving poorly there is great political capital to be made by exposing them. To hope that evil would never come out is extremely odd. High risk low reward. Id like to out Paul on the spotlight she seems to know everything. Why not Simon? Or Judith? Both have low credibility. Paula is gentle, so she is the choice. Smacks of politicking to me not reality. Im more than happy for all to be exposed. Adern Roberstson Bennet.

GV27

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#2315227 11-Sep-2019 20:03

I'm just saying that many here are saying it's impossible Ardern didn't know, but the reality is that if she's tried to ask questions and senior party figures out just been outright misleading her, there's every chance she didn't. Nothing I've seen so far rules that out or in, categorically.

tdgeek

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#2315235 11-Sep-2019 20:15

GV27:

I'm just saying that many here are saying it's impossible Ardern didn't know, but the reality is that if she's tried to ask questions and senior party figures out just been outright misleading her, there's every chance she didn't. Nothing I've seen so far rules that out or in, categorically.

I dont know either. Id suggest anybody would be fine to expose an issue in their own party. It shows credibility. To hide and hope is rather dumb. Exposing an evil such as this would be a major plus. Its a big win. If your are PM show how solid you are, easy.

Mahon

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#2315249 11-Sep-2019 20:42

Rikkitic:

Mahon:

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

Maybe you should wait to see if they are proven. Allegations are not evidence of anything.

Its more than an allegation....it was a statement read out in Parliament. You cant make those things up and expect to survive. I just wish it was all more transparent as it has gone on for way too long and is going to do irreparable damage to the party. This should have been all finished by now and NZ business being undertaken rather than fighting fires.

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