Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

1 | ... | 146 | 147 | 148 | 149 | 150 | 151 | 152 | 153 | 154 | 155 | 156 | ... | 268

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 161

#1998148 17-Apr-2018 21:56

wsnz:

MaxLV:

Meanwhile the coalition government is on 54%.

No, that's the combined support figure of Labour+Greens+NZF, not the coalition government support figure. Those are two quite different things.

Yes it is. The coalition government is made up of Labour and NZF, with a confidence and supply agreement between Labour and the Greens, who also have ministerial responsibilities in said government.

And the 54% figure is the combined total of Labour, NZF, AND the Greens.

But then you already know that dont you.

networkn

Networkn
32873 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15475

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1998153 17-Apr-2018 21:58

bmt:

You must be pretty distressed by the poll results if you have to argue the semantics of what to call the government and it's combined vote... and nothing else lol.

After 9 years of Sgt Schultz in command, this government is going in a vastly different direction with transport and housing. They will only be able to achieve so much in this term.. public transport and houses don't get built overnight after all, so you'd have to say the next election is going to be the real indication of whether the majority of NZ supports this direction or not.

I think National are going to have a field day during the debates comparing what Labour promised pre-election, to what they THEN said they would do POST election, followed by what they ACTUALLY did by the end of the term.

I am sure Labour will be saying something like "just wait till our 4th term, we are going to get those houses built, and those trees planted, we promise!".

Also, while you are feeling so cocky, you might want to consider how the budget is going to look and how people might react to that.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#1998157 17-Apr-2018 22:04

networkn:

bmt:

You must be pretty distressed by the poll results if you have to argue the semantics of what to call the government and it's combined vote... and nothing else lol.

After 9 years of Sgt Schultz in command, this government is going in a vastly different direction with transport and housing. They will only be able to achieve so much in this term.. public transport and houses don't get built overnight after all, so you'd have to say the next election is going to be the real indication of whether the majority of NZ supports this direction or not.

I think National are going to have a field day during the debates comparing what Labour promised pre-election, to what they THEN said they would do POST election, followed by what they ACTUALLY did by the end of the term.

I am sure Labour will be saying something like "just wait till our 4th term, we are going to get those houses built, and those trees planted, we promise!".

Also, while you are feeling so cocky, you might want to consider how the budget is going to look and how people might react to that.

Be it a National government or Labour government or a coalition it is the same thing..... election then twelve months blaming, twelve months guessing, twelve months BS then another election and cycle starts again.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MaxLV

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 161

#1998160 17-Apr-2018 22:11

networkn:

MaxLV:

We're just giving him the same chances to 'prove himself' that you have given Jacinda and the coalition government. Surely you cant object to that?

BTW I see national party supporters and the news media at NZ Herald buddies still dont understand how MMP works. National on 44%? Gee isn't that what they had on Sunday 24/09/2017... Meanwhile the coalition government is on 54%.

Tit for tat is it? Why am I not surprised?

Here is the difference.. Simon Bridges is not leading the country right now, he has 2 years to get his ducks lined up, work through his leadership challenges and be ready for 2020. He isn't rushing at everything like a bull at the gate, promising the earth and opposing for the sake of it.

I was in support of JA as leader of the Labour Party. Spending time in opposition proving she could lead and learning how to do her job properly. Planning and thinking through her policies and being sure BEFORE she implemented policy, that she could afford it. I felt she would be a much better PM as a result of that. I think the last 12 weeks of her failing to show leadership in any meaningful way is plenty of vindication of the concerns I voiced. If you can't see that, really you are beyond rose-tinted glasses.

*I* have not claimed that the coalition would not still lead today if an election was held. I am actually really surprised that the polls look nearly as good as they do for the 3 parties combined.

Spare me your 'explanations' and 'justifications', you have been, and are the most prolific critic of her since the election in this 'debate', unfounded criticisms (IMHO) and participated in turning this thread into nothing more than a tit for tat exchange. This is why I mostly keep out of it because you and others with your unjustified rhetoric about the government of New Zealand make participating pointless.

It's about time you remembered, you're posting your opinions here, that's all.

Here, for the record, is an (incomplete) summary of the achievements of the coalition government to date.

1. Legislation to give effect to the Families Package
2. Extension of Paid Parental Leave
3. Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill setting minimum standards for rentals –
4. Ban on overseas speculators buying existing houses
5. Fees free for post-secondary school education or training for first year from 2018
6. Directive to Housing New Zealand stopping the sell-off of state houses
7. Increase to Student allowances and living cost loans of $50 from 1 January 2018
8. Beginning of work to establish the Affordable Housing Authority and KiwiBuild programme
9. Tax Working Group – Terms of Reference announced and Chairman appointed
10. The restart of contributions to the Super Fund
11. Pike River Recovery Agency established
12. Legislation to provide greater fairness in workplace – Employment Relations Act amendment announced
13. Minimum wage to rise to $16.50 to take effect from April 2018
14. Introduced legislation to set a child poverty reduction target and to change the Public Finance Act so the Budget reports progress on reducing child poverty
15. Legislation to make medicinal cannabis available for people with terminal illnesses or in chronic pain
16. Set up an inquiry into the abuse of children in state care
17. Set up a Ministerial Inquiry in order to fix our mental health crisis
18. Set zero carbon emissions goal and begin setting up independent Climate Commission
19. Released an integrated transport reform plan – with greater emphasis on regional roading, road safety, public transport, rapid transit and cycling
20. Set up a commission of inquiry into the Hit&Run allegations about the actions of NZDF in Afghanistan
21. Putting an end to oil and gas exploration as part of NZ’s response to climate change, and signalling a further shift to renewables

This is hardly the track record of a flustered coalition government that’s falling over its own feet in disarray.

http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-the-prevailing-media-narratives-about-the-labour-led-coalition/

networkn

Networkn
32873 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15475

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1998162 17-Apr-2018 22:18

MaxLV:

Spare me your 'explanations' and 'justifications', you have been, and are the most prolific critic of her since the election in this 'debate', unfounded criticisms (IMHO) and participated in turning this thread into nothing more than a tit for tat exchange. This is why I mostly keep out of it because you and others with your unjustified rhetoric about the government of New Zealand make participating pointless.

Really? Unfounded critisms? Surely you can't be serious? Perhaps read some of what has been written with just a *modicum* of an open mind. I have been critical of JA and her mistakes but I have also given credit on the odd occasion I support her decisions. They exist, have a review of my posts.

You say participating is pointless, yet you are here again and again with your drive by comments.

MaxLV

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 161

#1998165 17-Apr-2018 22:20

networkn:

MaxLV:

Spare me your 'explanations' and 'justifications', you have been, and are the most prolific critic of her since the election in this 'debate', unfounded criticisms (IMHO) and participated in turning this thread into nothing more than a tit for tat exchange. This is why I mostly keep out of it because you and others with your unjustified rhetoric about the government of New Zealand make participating pointless.

Really? Unfounded critisms? Surely you can't be serious? Perhaps read some of what has been written with just a *modicum* of an open mind. I have been critical of JA and her mistakes but I have also given credit on the odd occasion I support her decisions. They exist, have a review of my posts.

You say participating is pointless, yet you are here again and again with your drive by comments.

I rest my case your Honour....

Mighty Ape

Shop now at Mighty Ape (affiliate link).

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 157
Inactive user

#1998166 17-Apr-2018 22:28

MaxLV:

Here, for the record, is an (incomplete) summary of the achievements of the coalition government to date.

1. Legislation to give effect to the Families Package
2. Extension of Paid Parental Leave
3. Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill setting minimum standards for rentals –
4. Ban on overseas speculators buying existing houses

And so on...

Allow me to remind you not to conflate 'achievements' with the notion of a benefit or 'step in the right direction'. An 'achievement' in your quoted list is merely an action, not necessarily a success to be proud of.

I could point out some particular policies, but that would merely be an opinion, of which I have made quite clear in previous posts.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#1998191 17-Apr-2018 22:33

As it is so often the case with political opinion especially opinion repeated multiple times becomes mistaken for fact and this forum is not immune to this.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

Networkn
32873 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 15475

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1998192 17-Apr-2018 22:35

MaxLV:

I rest my case your Honour....

Ah ok, so I guess that's a "no" to the open mind.. Fair enough :)

wsnz

654 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 204

#1998210 17-Apr-2018 23:05

MaxLV:

wsnz:

No, that's the combined support figure of Labour+Greens+NZF, not the coalition government support figure. Those are two quite different things.

Yes it is. The coalition government is made up of Labour and NZF, with a confidence and supply agreement between Labour and the Greens, who also have ministerial responsibilities in said government.

And the 54% figure is the combined total of Labour, NZF, AND the Greens.

But then you already know that dont you.

Sadly, the logical fallacy you are committing appears to be washing well over your head.

MaxLV

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 161

#1998213 17-Apr-2018 23:24

rjt123:
MaxLV:

Here, for the record, is an (incomplete) summary of the achievements of the coalition government to date.

1. Legislation to give effect to the Families Package
2. Extension of Paid Parental Leave
3. Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill setting minimum standards for rentals –
4. Ban on overseas speculators buying existing houses

And so on...

Allow me to remind you not to conflate 'achievements' with the notion of a benefit or 'step in the right direction'. An 'achievement' in your quoted list is merely an action, not necessarily a success to be proud of.

I could point out some particular policies, but that would merely be an opinion, of which I have made quite clear in previous posts.

Just because, *in your opinion* they're 'not achievements' doesn't stop them being achievements.

But you know that dont you.

Geekzone support

Support Geekzone with one-off or recurring donations Donate via PressPatron.

MaxLV

656 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 161

#1998214 17-Apr-2018 23:26

wsnz:

MaxLV:

wsnz:

No, that's the combined support figure of Labour+Greens+NZF, not the coalition government support figure. Those are two quite different things.

Yes it is. The coalition government is made up of Labour and NZF, with a confidence and supply agreement between Labour and the Greens, who also have ministerial responsibilities in said government.

And the 54% figure is the combined total of Labour, NZF, AND the Greens.

But then you already know that dont you.

Sadly, the logical fallacy you are committing appears to be washing well over your head.

Unfortunately, although your answer was indeed clear, simple, and straightforward, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts, insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems, of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 157
Inactive user

#1998244 18-Apr-2018 07:07

MaxLV:
wsnz:

MaxLV:

wsnz:

No, that's the combined support figure of Labour+Greens+NZF, not the coalition government support figure. Those are two quite different things.

Yes it is. The coalition government is made up of Labour and NZF, with a confidence and supply agreement between Labour and the Greens, who also have ministerial responsibilities in said government.

And the 54% figure is the combined total of Labour, NZF, AND the Greens.

But then you already know that dont you.

Sadly, the logical fallacy you are committing appears to be washing well over your head.

Unfortunately, although your answer was indeed clear, simple, and straightforward, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts, insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems, of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

You appear to have the mental capacity to copy and paste. Allow me to congratulate you. Can I however, humbly suggest when quoting linguistical masterpieces, as above, that you reference the source so as to give due recognition to the original author.

In respect to your statistic of a combined 54%, you couldn't be more accurate. Then again it's only adding three numbers so it's not hard. However, you are making the bold assumption of a replay of the same coalition negotiations and then the formation of the same government. It is possible, and I'm not saying that it wouldn't happen. But in understanding MMP, which you claim to, you must acknowledge that a vote for another party doesn't automatically equate to a vote for labour. Whilst it may be likely that the same government is formed, to assume is naive.

Also, in this poll, the support parties are sitting just above 5%, should labour steal a % point or two from them, the total figure would remain at 54% but the actual result would be totally different if that played out in an election. So while the total combined figure is interesting, to hold it as the single number of relevance would show a lack of thought.