Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Networkn
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#1998347 18-Apr-2018 10:18

Pumpedd:

networkn:

MaxLV:

I rest my case your Honour....

Ah ok, so I guess that's a "no" to the open mind.. Fair enough :)

After reading your comments it is good to see you practise what you preach. Your mind is clearly closed.

Huh? I think you might have gotten confused as to who you are replying to.

Rikkitic

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#1998364 18-Apr-2018 10:34

networkn:

Even you, a hardened leftie are struggling with the coalitions decisions and poor leadership.

Gee, no-one has ever called me that before!

If you seriously think I am a "hardened leftie" your perspective can only be that of an extreme rightie. As with Fox News, it provides a context for evaluating your remarks.

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networkn

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#1998373 18-Apr-2018 10:38

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Even you, a hardened leftie are struggling with the coalitions decisions and poor leadership.

Gee, no-one has ever called me that before!

If you seriously think I am a "hardened leftie" your perspective can only be that of an extreme rightie. As with Fox News, it provides a context for evaluating your remarks.

I don't really think you are a "hardened" leftie :) Should have described it differently.

Rikkitic

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#1998378 18-Apr-2018 10:43

networkn:

I don't really think you are a "hardened" leftie :) Should have described it differently.

Apology accepted. I don't think you are extreme right either.

For the record, I agree that the government has made some dumb mistakes and shot itself in the foot unnecessarily. I don't especially agree that its policies are wrong. Some may be but in general I think it is moving the right direction and I hope it gets better at the politics side of things.

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#1998383 18-Apr-2018 10:52

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I don't really think you are a "hardened" leftie :) Should have described it differently.

Apology accepted. I don't think you are extreme right either.

For the record, I agree that the government has made some dumb mistakes and shot itself in the foot unnecessarily. I don't especially agree that its policies are wrong. Some may be but in general I think it is moving the right direction and I hope it gets better at the politics side of things.

I am not having a dig at your here, but there are a lot of Labour supporters using the term "hope" when describing Labour Policies. I met a guy last night, talked to him for half an hour. He was a Labour voter and used that word about 25 times. Asked directly if he thought JA was a good leader, he admitted, no he thought she was a poor leader. Though he said he "hoped" she would improve..

For 400K a year, you shouldn't really be using the word hope around someone's competency.

As I have said before, I am torn around Labour policy. I don't agree with it, but I have a serious issue with it not delivering what it promised, because at least if they delivered, even if it was the wrong move it was planned and executed properly.

I saw bmt's list but I was too tired last night to tear that to pieces, but there are at least 20 similarly horrible things you could write about Labour since they took office. Scandals would make up 10 :)

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#1998505 18-Apr-2018 12:53

networkn:

I saw bmt's list but I was too tired last night to tear that to pieces, but there are at least 20 similarly horrible things you could write about Labour since they took office. Scandals would make up 10 :)

Perhaps fortuitously, I was grappling with my own personal impression of this Government's performance recently - reflecting on whether or not I was letting my differing views on policy effect my evaluation of their performance/competency. I came up with the following list, and decided that even an impartial observer would agree that they're falling well short of "competence".

(Note this list was prior to the confidence shattering announcement to the oil & gas industry, or Ardern's outright lies to EU leaders about NZ's ETS scheme)

General
- Farce over speaker selection
- Secret Coalition Document
- Significant lack of transparency despite promises (Eg. Unitec land buy price)

Labour
- Young Labour Camp debacle
- Deputy Leader (Kelvin Davis) shown to be completely out of depth

Ardern
- Insulted Trump
- Insulted Aussies
- Insulted Indonesian PM
- Failed to show leadership on Sex Scandal or RNZ Scandal

Curran
- Mislead over RNZ meetings
- Inappropriate phone call to RNZ Executive

Twyford
- Failure to understand Letting Fee abolition impacts
- Accused of "Pulling kiwibuild numbers out of his a**" and admitted it
- Thinks he can build 4000 houses on 70sq.m each

NZ First
- Use of Regional Fund to blackmail Opposition MPs to silence criticism

Peters
- Assertion no evidence of Russian airliner downing
- continuing FTA talks with Russia while the rest of the world is imposing sanctions
- Refusal to condemn Russian assasination on British soil

Jones
- Directing AirNZ it breach the Companies Act
- Insulting AirNZ Board Members & CEO

Mark
- Extrordinary use of RNZAF for personal travel

Greens
- Handing questions over to National

Genter
- Won't back away from shocking display of Agism, Sexism & Racism

...not a bad effort in the first 6 months.

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#1998525 18-Apr-2018 13:16

6FIEND:

Perhaps fortuitously, I was grappling with my own personal impression of this Government's performance recently - reflecting on whether or not I was letting my differing views on policy effect my evaluation of their performance/competency. I came up with the following list, and decided that even an impartial observer would agree that they're falling well short of "competence".

I too spend a fair bit of time reflecting on how I evaluate Labour because I strongly disagree with almost all their policies, and even the ones I agreed with are now looking pretty average once the "plan" was provided in more detail. IE Dom Law route of "trams" for airport rail.

BMT has accused me of only spouting opinion, but I dispute that strongly. I am always prepared to justify a statement I make. I am not above the occasional pithy comment if I am feeling frustrated, but the vast majority of my voicings here are based on what is being reported either by Labour and the coalition themselves, or more than 1 article from the press. I do read some left and right wing commentators to try and ensure I don't form opinions based on only 1 view.

I am *very* concerned at the polls not showing what I would have expected given the poor showing from Labour in the past 12 weeks, esp the sex scandals and the proven lies that has been told.

Don't forget our health ministers assertion he didn't know about middlemore, when there are photos of him being handed the documents outlining the issues, and then claiming he didn't read them because he wasn't told they were "important", despite DHB chairs categorically asserting they did indeed tell him. Given the DHB's lambasting of the previous Government and the comparatively positive frame they have shown to the new Government, there is no motivation for the DHB chairs to lie.

Makes me wonder how many documents Labour don't read every day because they aren't told they are important. I know someone else that everyone despises who collects his "intelligence" the same way. People don't like comparing JA/Labour/Coaliation to the Trump and his Government, but there are SOME disturbing parallels that even the most hardened supporters should be able to admit to.

Based on these latest polls is the disturbing similarities to the US Public that so many Kiwi's love to mock, that no matter what the leader does or doesn't do, support is still present in the polls.

Rikkitic

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#1998526 18-Apr-2018 13:17

It is an interesting list but many items seem subject to interpretation. As in, if you are philosophically opposed to 'left' policies you will disapprove, though there may not be a reason other than that to do so.

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networkn

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#1998531 18-Apr-2018 13:21

Rikkitic:

It is an interesting list but many items seem subject to interpretation. As in, if you are philosophically opposed to 'left' policies you will disapprove, though there may not be a reason other than that to do so.

I read the list, and whilst it could be claimed I am right leaning, I imagine I or 6fiend could find evidence to support the view that those points (and to be fair I could make a list another 5-10 things longer) are based on fact.

Which specifically are you having an issue with?

Rikkitic

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#1998537 18-Apr-2018 13:29

networkn:

Which specifically are you having an issue with?

Actually there are several but I don't have the resources to check them all. But to take just one example, is it actually known that Curran made an inappropriate phone call or is that just an assumption? I thought that the contents of the call had not been released. If not, how does anyone know that it was inappropriate?

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#1998551 18-Apr-2018 13:40

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Which specifically are you having an issue with?

Actually there are several but I don't have the resources to check them all. But to take just one example, is it actually known that Curran made an inappropriate phone call or is that just an assumption? I thought that the contents of the call had not been released. If not, how does anyone know that it was inappropriate?

Interesting... I would have gone with the "Greens giving their questions to National" as being the item most likely to be debatable as to whether it could be seen to be a good idea vs. a tactical error.

Regarding Curran's call - the PM herself acknowledged that it was inappropriate for Curran to make the call - regardless of it content (which has not been publicly released)

Jacinda Ardern:

I have reprimanded the Minister for making that call. She shouldn't have.

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networkn

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#1998554 18-Apr-2018 13:43

Wondering how many coalition supporters feel that RNZAF acting as Mark's personal travel appliances is appropriate? What I found so galling about this, was how critical NZF and ESP Ron Mark were during the last terms of perceived behaviour by National.

Rikkitic

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#1998574 18-Apr-2018 13:55

Another politician is a hypocrite. What else is new?

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networkn

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#1998578 18-Apr-2018 13:59

Rikkitic:

Another politician is a hypocrite. What else is new?

How flippant. Wasn't this supposed to the coalition of honesty and transparency?

Wondering what rating you'd give them on a scale of 1-10 if 10 is completely and 0 is none as it relates to a) Honesty, and b) transparency?

rjt123

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#1998580 18-Apr-2018 14:02

Rikkitic:
Another politician is a hypocrite. What else is new?

What's new was Jacinda's stand against old school political hypocrisy, lack of transparency etc. Despite her aspirations for a "absolutely transparent" government we're seeing the same old thing. Disappointing if you were a labour supporters I would think.

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