J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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#1859028 5-Sep-2017 14:56

networkn:
I have tried to get a few of the young people we know who complain about expensive housing, to approach it by saving up 20-30K then buying an apartment for say $150-200K then paying it off as quick as they can, then upgrading to something else, maybe in 3 steps over 10-12 years. They just aren't interested, they want a 900K house in 3 kings with 5 bedrooms, right off the bat. Hard to feel sympathy under those circumstances.

Where are there apartments for under 200k, of quality? Plus there are body corporate fees which are a big turnofff.

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#1859040 5-Sep-2017 15:18

I am sure many of those people on lower incomes would mind at all living in a 100 sq meter home I was brought up in one of those so was John Key. I know may of my age group (pensioners) who are living in some of these

modern day homes (4 bedrooms 2 bathrooms Double garage) would also appreciate being able to downsize to something smaller but this was todays style of home and they virtually had no choice when purchasing in a desirable neighbourhood. Labours suggested homes would be fully insulated and have all the modern fittings. If I wanted to move I wouldn't mind something like that.

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#1859046 5-Sep-2017 15:24

gulfa:

I am sure many of those people on lower incomes would mind at all living in a 100 sq meter home I was brought up in one of those so was John Key. I know may of my age group (pensioners) who are living in some of these

modern day homes (4 bedrooms 2 bathrooms Double garage) would also appreciate being able to downsize to something smaller but this was todays style of home and they virtually had no choice when purchasing in a desirable neighbourhood. Labours suggested homes would be fully insulated and have all the modern fittings. If I wanted to move I wouldn't mind something like that.

Exactly, I would be relatively sure until I was an adult I never lived in anything bigger than 100m2. A lot of farm cottages are pretty small.

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#1859049 5-Sep-2017 15:27

mattwnz:
networkn:

I have tried to get a few of the young people we know who complain about expensive housing, to approach it by saving up 20-30K then buying an apartment for say $150-200K then paying it off as quick as they can, then upgrading to something else, maybe in 3 steps over 10-12 years. They just aren't interested, they want a 900K house in 3 kings with 5 bedrooms, right off the bat. Hard to feel sympathy under those circumstances.

Where are there apartments for under 200k, of quality? Plus there are body corporate fees which are a big turnofff.

It's still more affordable than a 900K property right? Good as a starting position. Not all Body Corporate fees are outrageous, but ultimately it's part of the investment. What does it cost to maintain a 900K home?

We spend around 15K a year on mainteanance on our 13 year old house. We just had to regrout tiles and colourlok them, 3K. Replaced the carpet 2 years ago, 14K.

Owning a house isn't just about buying one, it's about all the costs you must pay after you buy it. Not everyone in NZ will own a house, this is reality.

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#1859051 5-Sep-2017 15:30

gulfa:

I am sure many of those people on lower incomes would mind at all living in a 100 sq meter home I was brought up in one of those so was John Key. I know may of my age group (pensioners) who are living in some of these

modern day homes (4 bedrooms 2 bathrooms Double garage) would also appreciate being able to downsize to something smaller but this was todays style of home and they virtually had no choice when purchasing in a desirable neighbourhood. Labours suggested homes would be fully insulated and have all the modern fittings. If I wanted to move I wouldn't mind something like that.

He was brought up in a state house which also had a big garden and was likely larger than just 100sqm. State houses are more around the 150sqm which seemed about the average back then. But they may have also had lean to s added over the years, as many they were too small for modern living.

These 100sqm dwellings are likely not to have their own gardens, and are likely not going to be able to be added onto if you need more space. The real value of a property, and it's value going up in the future is largely based on the potential in the land, so possibly not much room for big capital gains.

The thing about houses today, is that they also need to cater for people working from home, as that was one of the whole reasons for building the fibre netweork, so people could telecommute and reduce pressure on the roading infrastructure. A 100sqm dwelling will likely not be an option for that, unless it is for 1 person, or a couple. Kids needs a lot of space, and you also need quiet space away from them. Not unless we move to more social communities, where you have a lot of shared social spaces. But not sure if that sort of thing in 2017 would be considered safe. There have been social housing experiments in NZ on this, but most failed, with the common living areas becoming other dwellings. eg The Berhampore State Flats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berhampore_State_Flats

These were designed to be houses that would be 'fit for a cabinet minister'

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#1859055 5-Sep-2017 15:33

networkn:

mattwnz:
networkn:

I have tried to get a few of the young people we know who complain about expensive housing, to approach it by saving up 20-30K then buying an apartment for say $150-200K then paying it off as quick as they can, then upgrading to something else, maybe in 3 steps over 10-12 years. They just aren't interested, they want a 900K house in 3 kings with 5 bedrooms, right off the bat. Hard to feel sympathy under those circumstances.

Where are there apartments for under 200k, of quality? Plus there are body corporate fees which are a big turnofff.

It's still more affordable than a 900K property right? Good as a starting position. Not all Body Corporate fees are outrageous, but ultimately it's part of the investment. What does it cost to maintain a 900K home?

We spend around 15K a year on mainteanance on our 13 year old house. We just had to regrout tiles and colourlok them, 3K. Replaced the carpet 2 years ago, 14K.

Owning a house isn't just about buying one, it's about all the costs you must pay after you buy it. Not everyone in NZ will own a house, this is reality.

The apartments that were on RNZ a few weeks ago in Auckland were about $500k for first home buyers (only a few at that price). The normal ones were more like 700k. They had video inside and they were small and pokey, and the fixtures and finishes were pretty basic. Even at that someone will need at least a 100k deposit.

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#1859067 5-Sep-2017 15:45

But people have to start somewhere.It took us to our third house before I had a separate lounge and office area etc. Our first two houses were in Mangere, hardly a place I idolized growing up in Epsom / Mt Eden, but it was ours and we got to make changes to it as we pleased.

The only limiting factor on the 100sqm home is the land. I saw recently a house in Manurewa I think it was, 100sqm house on a 213 sqm section, that is ridiculously small, but its a target market at a target price point.

Basically what is being argued for is that people who have invested potentially a lot of money in real estate (their own home or secondary) to essentially drop hundreds of thousands of dollars (in some cases bankrupting them) to bring house prices down so that generation now doesn't have to do the hard yards and work their way up the property ladder?

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#1859103 5-Sep-2017 16:36

sen8or:

But people have to start somewhere.It took us to our third house before I had a separate lounge and office area etc. Our first two houses were in Mangere, hardly a place I idolized growing up in Epsom / Mt Eden, but it was ours and we got to make changes to it as we pleased.

The only limiting factor on the 100sqm home is the land. I saw recently a house in Manurewa I think it was, 100sqm house on a 213 sqm section, that is ridiculously small, but its a target market at a target price point.

Basically what is being argued for is that people who have invested potentially a lot of money in real estate (their own home or secondary) to essentially drop hundreds of thousands of dollars (in some cases bankrupting them) to bring house prices down so that generation now doesn't have to do the hard yards and work their way up the property ladder?

They haven't actually worked to get the capital gain though. That has occurred for a multitude of reasons, including record high immigration and lack of supply, high building and material costs etc. It is just luck and timing that many have benefited from a huge capital gain over the last 15 years. They also haven't necessarily invested their own money, many will have borrowed most of it. It is the banks that will be under the most pressure if there is a pricing collapse. It is only the people who purhcased near teh top of the market that will likely get burnt, and that is only if they are cashing out of the market or used their house as a bank to so on holidays or buy luxuries. That is why I think both parties have said that they don' want to see prices drop, as doing so could cause major problems to the NZ economy with banks.

I suspect these 100sqm one won't be standalone with their own plots of land. If they are, they will likely be terraced housing (eg England has rows of them). More likely they will be relatively high density units. However one way of working up the housing ladder was to increase value in the first home. eg doing it up or extending it etc. However I doubt either of those is possible with this option, due to them being new and not including land to extend into. Many people traditionally purchased an old doer upper as their first home, and then either built a new one on the land or refurbished it and extended it, which then allows them to sell and go up the ladder. Or they buy a house which they can subdivide the land from. This is not as achievable with something that you can't add any value to, and each time you buy and sell and move, there are lots of costs which eat into any profit.

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#1859120 5-Sep-2017 17:03

@mattwnz I am keen to hear what you'd build, what price you would have it at, and in what locations?

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#1859131 5-Sep-2017 17:17

If I had my choice again I don't believe I would buy a home. It has advantages for when one retires to somewhat reduce outgoings but there are better ways to do it. There needs to be a fundamental shift in the thinking when it comes to housing especially when it comes to size. I have friends that have no kids and never intend to but have 250+ sq Meter homes and believe they cannot cope with anything smaller, it's crazy. Our home is way too big in my mind and it's a "meagre" 170 sq Meter.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

mattwnz

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#1859142 5-Sep-2017 17:43

MikeB4:

If I had my choice again I don't believe I would buy a home. It has advantages for when one retires to somewhat reduce outgoings but there are better ways to do it. There needs to be a fundamental shift in the thinking when it comes to housing especially when it comes to size. I have friends that have no kids and never intend to but have 250+ sq Meter homes and believe they cannot cope with anything smaller, it's crazy. Our home is way too big in my mind and it's a "meagre" 170 sq Meter.

Depends what you do in your house. Everyone is different.

I would like to see a full cost breakdown of a house price, and what the margins are on things like materials for the manufacturer.

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#1859151 5-Sep-2017 17:56

sen8or:

I think part of the problem is that we are dealing with generation NOW. They want everything now, no waiting, no building up to it and if it could be handed to them on a silver platter, that'd be grand.

They should be very grateful for their student loans, houses at 10x household incomes and wages that have lagged behind inflation until extremely recently.

Let me guess, you walked fifteen miles in the snow to school and back every day, uphill in both directions?

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#1859153 5-Sep-2017 17:58

GV27:

sen8or:

I think part of the problem is that we are dealing with generation NOW. They want everything now, no waiting, no building up to it and if it could be handed to them on a silver platter, that'd be grand.

They should be very grateful for their student loans, houses at 10x household incomes and wages that have lagged behind inflation until extremely recently.

Let me guess, you walked fifteen miles in the snow to school and back every day, uphill in both directions?

I would hate to see the total debt some people have.

mattwnz

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#1859155 5-Sep-2017 18:03

networkn:

@mattwnz I am keen to hear what you'd build, what price you would have it at, and in what locations?

I would quite like to see what Labours pricing is going to be and exactly what the product is, as they are supposed to have the experts involved. You can buy a new standalone house in areas of the Wellington region for around the 500k mark with a small garden. Or an older house to do up with a larger piece of land for under that. First homes IMO are better to be old houses that people can add value to, and then work their way up the ladder. Whereas a new house is often going to be more difficult to increase it's value and work up the ladder. Especially as house themselves do depreciate.

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#1859167 5-Sep-2017 18:29

networkn:

@handle9 There are no magic bullets to solve some of our issues, each party can come up with stimulus packages and look into how the can improve one sector or another, but people seem to want fairy dust sprinkled. There are no new ideas essentially, there are tweaks to existing ideas. I think pointing out your opponents weaknesses is a fair enough part of any election process. I wouldn't want a negative campaign, but issues should be raised.

I'm fine with ideas being challenged on their merits and plenty of Labours ideas can be argued with. I also think you need to look at that National are doing exactly what you accuse Labour of around making up policy on the fly. On Saturday Jonathon Coleman he has changed his mind and will come up with a target around suicide. Then yesterday English came up with a totally arbitrary target around child poverty without being able to define what child poverty is.

The reason why National is struggling is they have been in power for 9 years. This means they get to take credit for the good work they have done but they also get the blame for the things they have gotten totally wrong. They don't seem to have new ideas which is why they are going back to the well on old ideas like build more roads and have boot camps. They also have lost a ton of talent. When you compare Jonathon Coleman to Tony Ryall you have gone from someone who was in total command of their portfolio to a profoundly unimpressive minister. Nicky Kaye is the one of the few replacements who has been more impressive than her predecessor. This is what happens to 3 term governments

You can like it or not but after 9 years lots of people are normally ready for a change.

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