Young Labour Summer Camp

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Forums › Politics › Young Labour Summer Camp - Feb 2018

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#2317395 13-Sep-2019 19:49

tdgeek:

Buy a different paper :-)

The live telecast today, she said on more than one occasion that it will include the process. The below is 100% incorrect.

The draft terms of reference for QC Maria Dew's investigation, seen by Stuff, are generally limited to the alleged sexual assault and bullying itself, not the party's process in dealing with them - which has formed a large part of the political scandal engulfing the party.

No other outlet is reporting they are in or out as a definitive answer.

Stuff reported that the draft terms of reference for the QC review may only look into the alleged sexual assault and bullying, not the party's process in dealing with them.

But Ardern said the terms of reference would meet the needs of the complainants, who have said the process had been unfair.

"I have an expectation that there are questions to answer around the process, so that does have to be looked into."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12267497

That's different to "Those are included in the terms of reference for the QC to look into". It's "It will need to be looked at at some stage". That could be a "definitely in there" to "We'll look at that separately" to "we'll look at that as an internal matter".

So far, no one has clearly articulated the terms of reference. The only thing we have to go on is Jacinda's comments, Stuff saying it's a bit horky borky and One News saying they've been locked down.

tdgeek

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#2317426 13-Sep-2019 20:49

GV27:

tdgeek:

Buy a different paper :-)

The live telecast today, she said on more than one occasion that it will include the process. The below is 100% incorrect.

The draft terms of reference for QC Maria Dew's investigation, seen by Stuff, are generally limited to the alleged sexual assault and bullying itself, not the party's process in dealing with them - which has formed a large part of the political scandal engulfing the party.

No other outlet is reporting they are in or out as a definitive answer.

Stuff reported that the draft terms of reference for the QC review may only look into the alleged sexual assault and bullying, not the party's process in dealing with them.

But Ardern said the terms of reference would meet the needs of the complainants, who have said the process had been unfair.

"I have an expectation that there are questions to answer around the process, so that does have to be looked into."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12267497

That's different to "Those are included in the terms of reference for the QC to look into". It's "It will need to be looked at at some stage". That could be a "definitely in there" to "We'll look at that separately" to "we'll look at that as an internal matter".

So far, no one has clearly articulated the terms of reference. The only thing we have to go on is Jacinda's comments, Stuff saying it's a bit horky borky and One News saying they've been locked down.

She said she will fix it, and she has said the process will be in it. It's her word. She mentioned that the process was the issue for the complainants. Horky Borky? Man thats stupid. What else is stupid is that the actual assaults are not news to any of the media, shame on them. Thats just an afterthought.

It would far more honest for them to put on paper that Adern and Robertson are liars. Too weak to go there.

I see Newshub poll shows 71% that Adern isnt believed. So next year we can choose between her and Simon. Im not sure if this is US or AUS politics in Godzone!

Mahon

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#2317446 13-Sep-2019 22:46

tdgeek:

GV27:

tdgeek:

Buy a different paper :-)

The live telecast today, she said on more than one occasion that it will include the process. The below is 100% incorrect.

The draft terms of reference for QC Maria Dew's investigation, seen by Stuff, are generally limited to the alleged sexual assault and bullying itself, not the party's process in dealing with them - which has formed a large part of the political scandal engulfing the party.

No other outlet is reporting they are in or out as a definitive answer.

Stuff reported that the draft terms of reference for the QC review may only look into the alleged sexual assault and bullying, not the party's process in dealing with them.

But Ardern said the terms of reference would meet the needs of the complainants, who have said the process had been unfair.

"I have an expectation that there are questions to answer around the process, so that does have to be looked into."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12267497

That's different to "Those are included in the terms of reference for the QC to look into". It's "It will need to be looked at at some stage". That could be a "definitely in there" to "We'll look at that separately" to "we'll look at that as an internal matter".

So far, no one has clearly articulated the terms of reference. The only thing we have to go on is Jacinda's comments, Stuff saying it's a bit horky borky and One News saying they've been locked down.

She said she will fix it, and she has said the process will be in it. It's her word. She mentioned that the process was the issue for the complainants. Horky Borky? Man thats stupid. What else is stupid is that the actual assaults are not news to any of the media, shame on them. Thats just an afterthought.

It would far more honest for them to put on paper that Adern and Robertson are liars. Too weak to go there.

I see Newshub poll shows 71% that Adern isnt believed. So next year we can choose between her and Simon. Im not sure if this is US or AUS politics in Godzone!

Labour deserve all they get. It is their screwup and blaming the media is a cop out. Aunty Helen wont help them out of this mess, they need to do it themselves.

Fred99

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#2317459 13-Sep-2019 23:56

tdgeek:

I see Newshub poll shows 71% that Adern isnt believed. So next year we can choose between her and Simon. Im not sure if this is US or AUS politics in Godzone!

It's NZ politics/media.

They're obsessing because they know they can talk it up to the front page for months without doing any actual journalism by posting endless lazy, cheap "opinion pieces".

tdgeek

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#2317564 14-Sep-2019 09:32

Mahon:

Labour deserve all they get. It is their screwup and blaming the media is a cop out. Aunty Helen wont help them out of this mess, they need to do it themselves.

Labour deserve all they get.

Another well thought out contribution to this thread

It is their screwup

Unlike another example, it is a screwup of non MP members of their party. Could it have been managed better, yes, just like every other party has had in the near and distant past. At least the MP, who are lawmakers, arent front and centre of devious secret discussions which show what they really are like and their devious plans and racism. This lot messed up, pure and simple

and blaming the media is a cop out.

Im not aware Labour has blamed the media, link please

Aunty Helen wont help them out of this mess, they need to do it themselves.

Im not aware Clarke has been called in to rescue them

Rikkitic

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#2317594 14-Sep-2019 10:14

Clark has actually said that Jacinda will sort it without her help.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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GV27

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#2317595 14-Sep-2019 10:15

tdgeek:

It is their screwup

Unlike another example, it is a screwup of non MP members of their party. Could it have been managed better, yes, just like every other party has had in the near and distant past. At least the MP, who are lawmakers, arent front and centre of devious secret discussions which show what they really are like and their devious plans and racism. This lot messed up, pure and simple

You don't know that. You can't know that because senior MPs who were named in Parliament as having known are refusing to answer questions about . You're also OK with this.

Yet you keep going on and on about National and are desperate to keep holding them to a high standard, but when Labour MPs hide behind a process that is only taking needed because they've supposedly made such a huge hash of the moral high-ground their leader has been preaching about when it comes to sexual assault, you're looking the other way. At some point, you're an apologist.

GV27

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#2317599 14-Sep-2019 10:18

Also, "horky borky" is a phrase I've picked up from YouTube. Call it 'suss' then.

You're also entirely reliant on what Jacinda is saying being gospel when it is increasingly looks like her own party is misleading her, or she's in on it.

So I ask you, why are her assurances still worth something? If Simon Bridges says "Oh no, we don't prioritise candidates based on donations and ethnic appeal" will you believe him too? I doubt you're prepared to cut him the same slack you're bending over backwards to cut JA.

Rikkitic

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#2317600 14-Sep-2019 10:20

GV27:

At some point, you're an apologist.

I agree, but the other side of that is constantly banging away when the evidence is not yet in and it is mostly speculation. There is a lot of irresponsible commentary about this, both on GZ and in the mainstream media. Give it a chance to percolate through and we will know the truth of the matter.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2317601 14-Sep-2019 10:20

GV27:

tdgeek:

It is their screwup

Unlike another example, it is a screwup of non MP members of their party. Could it have been managed better, yes, just like every other party has had in the near and distant past. At least the MP, who are lawmakers, arent front and centre of devious secret discussions which show what they really are like and their devious plans and racism. This lot messed up, pure and simple

You don't know that. You can't know that because senior MPs who were named in Parliament as having known are refusing to answer questions about . You're also OK with this.

Yet you keep going on and on about National and are desperate to keep holding them to a high standard, but when Labour MPs hide behind a process that is only taking needed because they've supposedly made such a huge hash of the moral high-ground their leader has been preaching about when it comes to sexual assault, you're looking the other way. At some point, you're an apologist.

You dont know that either for the same reasons you stated, so why is it a issue for me, but nor for you?

I dont go on and on, I raise it as its an equivalent issue. Unless sits ok to cherry pick what to bash? IMHO JLR and this do offer similarities, but it sees we dint want to talk about that?

The process was poor, have you decided they hid behind it?

No, Im not looking the other way, I prefer to wait till the facts arise form the independent QC inquiry than speculate in a manner that suits my choices which is what you are doing. Its fine to wish to see Labour fail, but isn't it better to ache that wish when all the facts are out?

tdgeek

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#2317611 14-Sep-2019 10:30

Rikkitic:

GV27:

At some point, you're an apologist.

I agree, but the other side of that is constantly banging away when the evidence is not yet in and it is mostly speculation. There is a lot of irresponsible commentary about this, both on GZ and in the mainstream media. Give it a chance to percolate through and we will know the truth of the matter.

Thats right, wishing it to happen hoping it will happen and praying it will happen, isn't commentary. At least some of us are here discussing it, not running away and hiding for weeks when the Opposition had their time on stage

In any case, this will be it for Labour, its done now. I cant see a win next election, I dont see a big loss, but it will be a comfortable loss

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tdgeek

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#2317613 14-Sep-2019 10:35

GV27:

Also, "horky borky" is a phrase I've picked up from YouTube. Call it 'suss' then.

You're also entirely reliant on what Jacinda is saying being gospel when it is increasingly looks like her own party is misleading her, or she's in on it.

So I ask you, why are her assurances still worth something? If Simon Bridges says "Oh no, we don't prioritise candidates based on donations and ethnic appeal" will you believe him too? I doubt you're prepared to cut him the same slack you're bending over backwards to cut JA.

I dont cut her any slack. WhY? I dont know if and how much she is implicated. One thing I do go on and on about is the QC inquiry, but no one wants to mention that. Its an Inquiry. I cant take her, Bridges, Robertsons etc words on anything as no one outside of them know the facts. Facts. Facts are a good thing.

The words he used in the secret tape was shall we say, a tad more colour and gutter than your quote.

GV27

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#2317618 14-Sep-2019 10:47

tdgeek:

You dont know that either for the same reasons you stated, so why is it a issue for me, but nor for you?

Because you have decided it doesn't involve senior MPs at all:

tdgeek:

Unlike another example, it is a screwup of non MP members of their party.

You are definitively saying it is something that you can't know.

GV27

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#2317619 14-Sep-2019 10:47

tdgeek:

You dont know that either for the same reasons you stated, so why is it a issue for me, but nor for you?

Because you have decided it doesn't involve senior MPs at all:

tdgeek:

Unlike another example, it is a screwup of non MP members of their party.

You are definitively saying it is something that you can't know.

tdgeek

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#2317621 14-Sep-2019 10:48

GV27:

You're also entirely reliant on what Jacinda is saying being gospel when it is increasingly looks like her own party is misleading her, or she's in on it.

So I ask you, why are her assurances still worth something?

See, I dont know the truth. Im not taking what she says as gospel, if that was the case I would have told you that she is 100% clean. Im not sure how I can answer why her assurances are worth something when I am not aware of the truth? Wait for the Inquiry. But others here have already decided the facts, thats the issue here, and thus awarded the disdain based upon the facts they they have decreed are the case. Because that suits their political choices.

Personally I would be surprised if she knew. But I wont base my choice on what to believe on my hunch. If she did know she would expose it, and gain many brownie points. I doubt that her persona is the type to keep devious secrets of that nature. Its not hard too imagine some of her inner circle keeping that away from her. last serious, although its hardly news breaking in politics is it? She has made it very very clear that she wants the process investigated. It would be easier to gloss over that, it will go away, the Inquiry might come up clean but badly handled, sorted. Thats a good result, but my feelings that she does in fact want transparency. She could also use other well used tactics, smile, ignore it, walk away, they also work.

However, as I mentioned, I think this, KB, are it for this Government, it's history. Had promise, needs time to get up to speed, see you in 9 years!

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