Young Labour Summer Camp

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Forums › Politics › Young Labour Summer Camp - Feb 2018

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#2317623 14-Sep-2019 10:52

GV27:

tdgeek:

You dont know that either for the same reasons you stated, so why is it a issue for me, but nor for you?

Because you have decided it doesn't involve senior MPs at all:

tdgeek:

Unlike another example, it is a screwup of non MP members of their party.

You are definitively saying it is something that you can't know.

I was referring to the initial offences. The "other example" was direct actions with elected or list MP's. The disconnect here is that NO ONE has any interest in the serious sexual offences committed at all. Its just about the dagger.

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#2317624 14-Sep-2019 10:55

tdgeek:

However, as I mentioned, I think this, KB, are it for this Government, it's history. Had promise, needs time to get up to speed, see you in 9 years!

I guess I differ - I still see it as possible this has been kept from Ardern (and Robertson being named in Parliament strongly reinforces that possibility); but if she wants to step aside - possibly appoint Winston as acting PM - and take long knives to Labour and cut her non-performers and apologists out, she will have something approaching an electable party come next year. She won't have many people left, but she will need to have a clean-out one way or the other if they are to come back from this.

Key's relaxed demeanour made people underestimate him and he had no qualms about telling people they were cooked. If Ardern has that same streak; the compassionate nature that belies a ruthless Clark-esque nature, now's the time to show it. I don't think the electorate will respect her anymore unless her own MPs fear her.

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#2317627 14-Sep-2019 11:01

That's probably for the other thread though.

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#2317632 14-Sep-2019 11:17

GV27:

tdgeek:

However, as I mentioned, I think this, KB, are it for this Government, it's history. Had promise, needs time to get up to speed, see you in 9 years!

I guess I differ - I still see it as possible this has been kept from Ardern (and Robertson being named in Parliament strongly reinforces that possibility); but if she wants to step aside - possibly appoint Winston as acting PM - and take long knives to Labour and cut her non-performers and apologists out, she will have something approaching an electable party come next year. She won't have many people left, but she will need to have a clean-out one way or the other if they are to come back from this.

Key's relaxed demeanour made people underestimate him and he had no qualms about telling people they were cooked. If Ardern has that same streak; the compassionate nature that belies a ruthless Clark-esque nature, now's the time to show it. I don't think the electorate will respect her anymore unless her own MPs fear her.

I see any possibility as possible. But we dont know. Most of the commentary here is based on her and everyone is guilty as sin, and the commentary flows from that.Yes its possible that some inner circle shielded her, I think I mentioned that today. But until we find out, its just Labour bashing speculation by some nothing more. If the Inquiry shows Labour up in a REALLY bad light, it will be I told you so. If it didn't, then the Inquiry is wrong! You watch, thats what will happen here :-)

Labour has a few key points. Young, inexperienced, keen to make a difference, and JA's reputation. Young hasn't helped. Inexperienced, refer this and KB, keen, refer KB, JA, well her 110% rep is faltering badly. You cant run a country based on the emotional things she has added to her position. NZF's followers will want to exist Labour, as they dont trust Winston to do that, they will vote National, Coalition is over. There was a time, not long ago, when they govern alone, thats it, done. Now, they need to get enough votes to govern alone as NZF wont be there, the devil you know is easier, we can watch Labour mature, thats what the Labour orientated mania the street will think. Ultra Conservatism is the last thing NZ and climate needs right now, but Labour were too young it seems

Yes she could yell and scream and get some points, that's possible, and the only hope. If Robertson knew he needs to stay but he is demoted. The thing with NZ, politics is fickle. Labour has a low level of cred now, and despite National being do nothings, fill up the bank and preach stewardship, and that they are death to climate change policies, thats the only other choice. Bad for NZ. Had Labour been better that forces National to be better, we all win

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#2317673 14-Sep-2019 11:28

tdgeek:

GV27:

tdgeek:

However, as I mentioned, I think this, KB, are it for this Government, it's history. Had promise, needs time to get up to speed, see you in 9 years!

I guess I differ - I still see it as possible this has been kept from Ardern (and Robertson being named in Parliament strongly reinforces that possibility); but if she wants to step aside - possibly appoint Winston as acting PM - and take long knives to Labour and cut her non-performers and apologists out, she will have something approaching an electable party come next year. She won't have many people left, but she will need to have a clean-out one way or the other if they are to come back from this.

Key's relaxed demeanour made people underestimate him and he had no qualms about telling people they were cooked. If Ardern has that same streak; the compassionate nature that belies a ruthless Clark-esque nature, now's the time to show it. I don't think the electorate will respect her anymore unless her own MPs fear her.

I see any possibility as possible. But we dont know. Most of the commentary here is based on her and everyone is guilty as sin, and the commentary flows from that.Yes its possible that some inner circle shielded her, I think I mentioned that today. But until we find out, its just Labour bashing speculation by some nothing more. If the Inquiry shows Labour up in a REALLY bad light, it will be I told you so. If it didn't, then the Inquiry is wrong! You watch, thats what will happen here :-)

Labour has a few key points. Young, inexperienced, keen to make a difference, and JA's reputation. Young hasn't helped. Inexperienced, refer this and KB, keen, refer KB, JA, well her 110% rep is faltering badly. You cant run a country based on the emotional things she has added to her position. NZF's followers will want to exist Labour, as they dont trust Winston to do that, they will vote National, Coalition is over. There was a time, not long ago, when they govern alone, thats it, done. Now, they need to get enough votes to govern alone as NZF wont be there, the devil you know is easier, we can watch Labour mature, thats what the Labour orientated mania the street will think. Ultra Conservatism is the last thing NZ and climate needs right now, but Labour were too young it seems

Yes she could yell and scream and get some points, that's possible, and the only hope. If Robertson knew he needs to stay but he is demoted. The thing with NZ, politics is fickle. Labour has a low level of cred now, and despite National being do nothings, fill up the bank and preach stewardship, and that they are death to climate change policies, thats the only other choice. Bad for NZ. Had Labour been better that forces National to be better, we all win

If they are so keen to make a difference....why dont they? I was hoping for so much from them but all we have got is false promises, failed policies and plain dumb errors.

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#2317689 14-Sep-2019 12:16

Mahon:

If they are so keen to make a difference....why dont they? I was hoping for so much from them but all we have got is false promises, failed policies and plain dumb errors.

Perhaps try reading before ranting " keen, refer KB" You werent hoping your very anti, so no need to cover that up. They trued and failed, election is next year, sorted. We will go back to what we have had, and thats fine with me. Roll on easy tax cuts

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#2318881 17-Sep-2019 07:33

Curious how we have MPs hiding behind a QC review and other party investigations when it comes to what they knew and when but the party personnel scrambling to clear their names in public after the reviews have been announced.

And by "curious" I mean "entirely unsurprising".

Either commenting is OK or it isn't.

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#2318889 17-Sep-2019 07:56

GV27:

Curious how we have MPs hiding behind a QC review and other party investigations when it comes to what they knew and when but the party personnel scrambling to clear their names in public after the reviews have been announced.

And by "curious" I mean "entirely unsurprising".

Either commenting is OK or it isn't.

If there is to be a QV review, does that make it acceptable to be yapping on about it? Its like discussing court cases in public. If they are now seeking to clear their names that's poor. Whether the review can clear names its hard to say. JA seems adamant to take a hard line here, that's her only hope to escape this debacle. Id wait till QC and her are done, then form an opinion. I can see a couple of big heads roll, she would want to do that. In any case the damage is done.

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#2318892 17-Sep-2019 08:18

I'm also unsure as to why Robertson is allowed to deflect to the QC's report when asked what he knew and when, yet that isn't covered by the QC report.

There's going to be an internal report which is then going to be given to a third party which will then compile a timeline of facts.

Reports upon reports upon reports while no one has to give a straight answer to a simple question.

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#2318898 17-Sep-2019 08:28

GV27:

I'm also unsure as to why Robertson is allowed to deflect to the QC's report when asked what he knew and when, yet that isn't covered by the QC report.

There's going to be an internal report which is then going to be given to a third party which will then compile a timeline of facts.

Reports upon reports upon reports while no one has to give a straight answer to a simple question.

What if Robertson came out today and said he knew nothing? Would that end the matter?

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#2318941 17-Sep-2019 09:31

Adern is a weak leader and should have acted on this long before now. All Adern ever wants to do is to hold enquiries. Only winners are the lawyers.

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#2318947 17-Sep-2019 09:40

tdgeek:

What if Robertson came out today and said he knew nothing? Would that end the matter?

I mean that would raise further questions, but I think the chances of that happening are probably pretty small given that the party and the complainants are now facing off.

tdgeek

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#2318959 17-Sep-2019 09:58

Mahon:

Adern is a weak leader and should have acted on this long before now. All Adern ever wants to do is to hold enquiries. Only winners are the lawyers.

True, we dont want inquiries held by Queens Counsel's etc to find the truth. Better off to smile and ignore, that's the usual tactic by leaders...

GV27

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#2319064 17-Sep-2019 11:02

tdgeek:

Mahon:

Adern is a weak leader and should have acted on this long before now. All Adern ever wants to do is to hold enquiries. Only winners are the lawyers.

True, we dont want inquiries held by Queens Counsel's etc to find the truth. Better off to smile and ignore, that's the usual tactic by leaders...

The Queens Counsel isn't looking into the handling of the complaint and who knew what when.

Mahon

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#2319073 17-Sep-2019 11:12

GV27:

tdgeek:

Mahon:

Adern is a weak leader and should have acted on this long before now. All Adern ever wants to do is to hold enquiries. Only winners are the lawyers.

True, we dont want inquiries held by Queens Counsel's etc to find the truth. Better off to smile and ignore, that's the usual tactic by leaders...

The Queens Counsel isn't looking into the handling of the complaint and who knew what when.

I am sure the truth is well known and has been for sometime. Holding 2 more enquiries, is handing the tough decisions to someone else. Any form of sexual abuse should be handed to the Police.

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