They lost the war on drugs

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Networkn
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#1524008 1-Apr-2016 15:21

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Interestingly, I have never taken ANY of those drugs.

More power to you. I don't advocate that anyone should, just that those who do should not be subjected to idiotic and disproportionate sanctions simply for doing something they enjoy.

I don't consider the sanctions idiotic and disproportionate and you wouldn't either, if your kid was killed by a driver, high on weed who loses attention and jumps the curb and pins your kid to a fence.

Lots of people "enjoy" doing things that are illegal, serial killers for example! Enjoyment is irrelevant.

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#1524009 1-Apr-2016 15:22

I'd vote for full legalisation using the logic:

- people than want to access dope can get it

- making it legal would mean the money spent on criminalising people, catching them and locking them up could go into care / education for those people that have problems

- remove the $$$ risk money from the suppliers

- legal drugs would be more likely to be higher quality and not be adulterated with harmful additives to increase their quantity

- in my experience the people that have problems with drugs are also the ones who have problems with alcohol - so it not necessarily about drugs.

- you can ban drugs and driving and fund police to have roadside tests = $$$$$

FYI - I am not a and have never been a drug user and am worried about the consequences if my kids become users.

MikeB4

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#1524011 1-Apr-2016 15:23

Was this thread prompted by Mr Dunns moves to get re elected, he is after all Peter dunn nothing. Remember the chaos he caused with the "legal" high fiasco.

This would be an exceptionally dumb move for NZ

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#1524012 1-Apr-2016 15:26

networkn:

Also it's a Stupid Title, because Drugs encompass all sorts of drugs and the "drugs" the op speaks of is just Weed!

I focused on weed because that is the one most widely used and discussed, but it is not the only one that falls into this category (soft drugs). My title comes from the 'war on drugs' that was declared by Richard Nixon and again by Nancy Reagan and has recently been used in other publications, which I was effectively quoting. They coined it, not me, and they and people like them saw no difference whatsoever between a joint and shooting up heroin, which the result that a lot of people who never did anything worse than smoke a joint in the privacy of their home had their lives destroyed by long stints in prison. The war on drugs was and is a travesty and now, at long last, attitudes are starting to change. It is long overdue.

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networkn

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#1524013 1-Apr-2016 15:28

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Also it's a Stupid Title, because Drugs encompass all sorts of drugs and the "drugs" the op speaks of is just Weed!

I focused on weed because that is the one most widely used and discussed, but it is not the only one that falls into this category (soft drugs). My title comes from the 'war on drugs' that was declared by Richard Nixon and again by Nancy Reagan and has recently been used in other publications, which I was effectively quoting. They coined it, not me, and they and people like them saw no difference whatsoever between a joint and shooting up heroin, which the result that a lot of people who never did anything worse than smoke a joint in the privacy of their home had their lives destroyed by long stints in prison. The war on drugs was and is a travesty and now, at long last, attitudes are starting to change. It is long overdue.

Heh, I hate to break it to you, but the "war on drugs" was actually coined in a response to curb Cocaine and Heroin importing and distribution (Primarily) from South America and into North America.

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#1524014 1-Apr-2016 15:29

Decriminalise cannabis: perhaps yes.

Legalise cannabis: *&^% no.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

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Rikkitic

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#1524015 1-Apr-2016 15:29

networkn:

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Interestingly, I have never taken ANY of those drugs.

More power to you. I don't advocate that anyone should, just that those who do should not be subjected to idiotic and disproportionate sanctions simply for doing something they enjoy.

I don't consider the sanctions idiotic and disproportionate and you wouldn't either, if your kid was killed by a driver, high on weed who loses attention and jumps the curb and pins your kid to a fence.

Lots of people "enjoy" doing things that are illegal, serial killers for example! Enjoyment is irrelevant.

Come on, now you are just being emotional. I have heard of something very much like what you describe, but it was alcohol, not weed that the driver was on. Not every drinker is an irresponsible moron and not every smoker is either.

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jonathan18

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#1524017 1-Apr-2016 15:32

networkn:

Interestingly, I have never taken ANY of those drugs.

And hence why I'm not surprised at your reductionist take on the "problem". Nothing this complex can be simplified down to (or solved by) the mantras "drugs are bad" and "increase the penalties".

There is clearly an increasing body of evidence pointing towards the advantages to the wider society as well as individuals of treating drugs as a medical versus criminal issue.

Two interesting things I read/listened to on this matter this week:

First up, an interview on Nat Rad with one of the lead authors on the recent report on why the war on drugs is a failure.

Second, closer to home, reporting from a recent survey on NZer's attitude towards maryjane, in particular for medical use

The interviewee in the first link makes some interesting comments regarding the benefits of putting any savings from reduced policing and court/incarceration requirements (and/or I assume tax revenue, if you want to go there) into harm minimisation (drug treatment etc). Something clearly govts the world over do not practice when it comes to the most "dangerous"/costly drug of all: alcohol.

I know I've got as much chance of changing your mind on this issue as a I have of winning Lotto (and I don't buy tickets!), but reading/listening to this kind of stuff will at least expose you to a more contemporary understanding of what is considered an effective approach to drugs - an understanding that even otherwise conservative politicians (including our own Peter Dunne) are becoming increasingly warm towards.

networkn

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#1524018 1-Apr-2016 15:32

Come on, now you are just being emotional. I have heard of something very much like what you describe, but it was alcohol, not weed that the driver was on. Not every drinker is an irresponsible moron and not every smoker is either.

Am I just being emotional ? I don't think so. It happens. I also support a ban on alcohol which I think is a far worse drug, but people are so focused on their "rights" they don't much care about the long term effects on society.

Rikkitic

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#1524019 1-Apr-2016 15:33

networkn:

I'll be incredibly surprised if Australia legalize weed in the next 10 years considering they are opposed to Gay Marriage.

They are on the verge of legalising it for medical use, after which New Zealand will probably do the same (as it usually does). Recreational use will follow when politicians begin to see that it doesn't turn people into homicidal maniacs.

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floydbloke

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#1524022 1-Apr-2016 15:35

Fred99:

I'm not very interested in anecdotes, no matter how dearly other posters may grasp on their "personal experience with use or abstinence from drugs, it's irrelevant to the topic. Almost all of us use drugs.

Here's how experts see it:

The other point to note is that while experts in the field might favour decriminalisation, many people seem to consider this as "legalisation" - to the extent that there'll be the equivalent of candy stores dispensing cheap methamphetamine and heroin to school kids. Nobody sane wants this.

Perhaps those who are in fear of decriminalisation and treatment of diseases of addiction as diseases, might consider "what if" a child of theirs was addicted.

"Of course it won't happen" (because we're "good" parents) is head in the sand denial of reality - aided/exacerbated by the fact that when something's criminal, then it gets hidden.

Would they want their own child thrown in a prison cell and condemned to a life with a criminal record - or given medical help to manage and overcome their addiction?

Question about this chart - is this about addiction or does it include casual use?

If the latter then I'd have to disagree. As a casual consumer of alcohol I know that I don't generate any social harm and I'm not aware of its having caused me any personal harm ( no symptoms currently).

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

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MikeB4

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#1524023 1-Apr-2016 15:36

My son is a Cognitive Psychologist, he believes any legalisation of drugs will be very bad socially and medically with the affects long lasting and invasive in all aspects of society. I spent many years working in social services both voluntary and paid, I have seen all too often the devastating affects of drug and alcohol use again both physically and socially.

If legalised the ongoing costs of dealing with its aftermath would be vastly greater than the cost now.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1524025 1-Apr-2016 15:37

MikeB4:

My son is a Cognitive Psychologist, he believes any legalisation of drugs will be very bad socially and medically with the affects long lasting and invasive in all aspects of society. I spent many years working in social services both voluntary and paid, I have seen all too often the devastating affects of drug and alcohol use again both physically and socially.

If legalised the ongoing costs of dealing with its aftermath would be vastly greater than the cost now.

My sister is a Drug and Alcohol Counsellor, she feels the same way. (She believes Weed use is extremely pervasive in people's emotional state long term).

I also know 3 ex heavy weed smokers who have quit and will happily share their personal opinions that weed, esp in young people, ruined their lives.

Rikkitic

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#1524028 1-Apr-2016 15:39

networkn:

Heh, I hate to break it to you, but the "war on drugs" was actually coined in a response to curb Cocaine and Heroin importing and distribution (Primarily) from South America and into North America.

It didn't do much good, did it? The point being made by myself and others is that repression by any name just makes things worse. It is directly responsible for the rise of the criminal drug cartels because all any so-called 'crackdown' achieves is to raise the price of drugs, which raises the profits and incentives for the criminals. It is a no-win situation.

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networkn

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#1524029 1-Apr-2016 15:40

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Heh, I hate to break it to you, but the "war on drugs" was actually coined in a response to curb Cocaine and Heroin importing and distribution (Primarily) from South America and into North America.

It didn't do much good, did it? The point being made by myself and others is that repression by any name just makes things worse. It is directly responsible for the rise of the criminal drug cartels because all any so-called 'crackdown' achieves is to raise the price of drugs, which raises the profits and incentives for the criminals. It is a no-win situation.

How do you know it did no good? We don't have an alternative universe to see what would have happened if the "war" didn't happen.

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