North and South Korea talks

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › North and South Korea talks

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | ... | 11

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004248 28-Apr-2018 19:48

DaveB:

Fred99: Oh FFS. NZH with an opinion piece in the paper suggesting Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize if theres a peace settlement.
I thought Murdoch only owned part of the NZH, should be no reason for a NZ paper to publish such utter crap on behalf of the Faux News Network.
Yeah "but Obama".
Whatabout if the Herald stops publishing whataboutism propaganda pieces.

Be prepared for a lot more of this over the coming days ............

"Because having demonised Trump as the fifth horseman of the apocalypse when he was elected nearly 18 months ago, things have actually turned out really rather well.
The Koreas are talking and, finally, a U.S. president is actually prepared to enforce ex-president Barack Obama’s red lines on chemical weapons in Syria (instead of merely talking about it).

Employment is up, and the U.S. economy, despite the odd wobble, is booming — which means ours is, too.
And regardless of the relentless and corrosive barrage of rudeness directed at him by our political classes, Mr Trump still seems genuinely fond of the UK, and keen to sort out a post-Brexit trade deal.
His predecessor, Mr Obama, we should recall, told us that we would be at the ‘back of the queue’ when it came to all that."

I suspect that Trump's support will lift again, as he is already taking a lot of credit for Korea. It was interesting watching Merkel's body language and grimacing at their press conference this morning.

No.

The Koreas talks are not due to Trump. They are due to SK. China next. But the key factor is now that KJU has finished his tasks, its time to reap the rewards. NK is a nuclear country and will remain so. Tick. He is acting "cool" now, reasonable, personable, so already he is being referred to as Chairman. Tick two on that. he is establishing himself as a bone fide leader of state. Nothing to do with idiot Trump. Trump is in fact being negative. Walk away etc. US is being phased out of the Korea issue.

Syria. Enforce? Fire and Fury? Obama talked about it, Trump tweets as well as talks, not a lot to see there.

Trade deal? He doesn't underhand trade. Tariffs imports so that US citizens pay the tariff. Not wise. He took them out of TPPA so now other countries will manage their trade with themselves, happening already.

My prediction for Korea is that Trump will continue to be negative he has been today. Denuclearisation for him is dismantle the nukes and inspect, that won't happen. A 1970's denuclearisation agreement between USSR and USA is a good guide. That did not involve dismantling, the same will apply here. As NK is now a nuclear state, what was planned, and has been completed. And as KJU told his people one week ago. Should Trump start bagging NK, that would play into KJU's hands as he can cancel the meeting due to Trumps attitude. Then SK, China, UN can deal with it. Bottom line is the US are being bypassed. Best to play along as KJU won and the US lost. Korea wise, that's their business if they can work it out. Should talks suggest a reduction in sanctions, the US will oppose that, but they will be reduced. Its reasonable to reduce some as a goodwill measure in a few months, perhaps sooner. if NK renege as usual, nothing is lost. If they play ball, everything is gained.

Its not WW2 or Cold War now, its a different era.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004252 28-Apr-2018 19:54

DaveB:

Sanctions, Sanctions, Sanctions.

With that, maybe a determined President Moon Jae-in and realistic Kim Jong-un recognize that there could be a better path forward than continuing to be the pawns of two super powers?

I agree. Its Asia, let Asia manage it. China is in Asia, its the main power there, they should be involved. US doesnt need to be there, if they werent, this problem would not exist. But due to NK potentially attacking SK, they were there and rightly so. Despite all the rhetoric from NK and US, clearly there was no threat to SK in terms of an all out attack. US could remain, but regrettably Trump added his twist to the saga. Probably increasing the effort to tick the nuclear box by NK.

Now, if Korea resolve matters, the US can leave, so quite simple. They can shift to Okinawa, although Japan aint keen on that

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2004307 28-Apr-2018 21:53

Maybe KJU should get the peace prize. Only kidding, but it's possible he's been on a mission, held on to power against coup attempts - some possibly even supported by China to throw him out - and that mission was to move toward unification and modernisation, without capitulation.
He seems smart - way ahead of Trump anyway - if quality of rhetoric is a guide. At least he's got a sense of humour the dotard lacks.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004384 29-Apr-2018 08:11

Fred99: Maybe KJU should get the peace prize. Only kidding, but it's possible he's been on a mission, held on to power against coup attempts - some possibly even supported by China to throw him out - and that mission was to move toward unification and modernisation, without capitulation.
He seems smart - way ahead of Trump anyway - if quality of rhetoric is a guide. At least he's got a sense of humour the dotard lacks.

I feel he is very smart, a marketing genius. His people live poorly yet they worship him. Those that don't, comply. He has stated he wants a nuclear capability to preserve his nation, the deterrent. He wants to be recognised. He wants the country to recover economically. Those that say Trump gets credit are false. But you can say Trump caused KJU to accelerate his plans, so perhaps Trump gets credit that the possible turning point is now, not in 2 years. Trump will possibly earn credit when he caves in and rants against the NK poor deal, and alienates the US away from the deal making, which will help NK as KJU will act reasonably, and Asia as it will become a deal based on NK, SK, Asia and the global community.

My negative opinion on KJU hasn't changed, he is a tyrant, but he has managed the achievement of his goals perfectly. Should he continue to act well, NK will come out of this well, and there will be peace, and going by media coverage, everyone will put aside his tyrannic behaviour, and focus more on the greater good from here on.

Geektastic

17942 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004401 29-Apr-2018 09:17

tdgeek:
Fred99: Maybe KJU should get the peace prize. Only kidding, but it's possible he's been on a mission, held on to power against coup attempts - some possibly even supported by China to throw him out - and that mission was to move toward unification and modernisation, without capitulation.
He seems smart - way ahead of Trump anyway - if quality of rhetoric is a guide. At least he's got a sense of humour the dotard lacks.

I feel he is very smart, a marketing genius. His people live poorly yet they worship him. Those that don't, comply. He has stated he wants a nuclear capability to preserve his nation, the deterrent. He wants to be recognised. He wants the country to recover economically. Those that say Trump gets credit are false. But you can say Trump caused KJU to accelerate his plans, so perhaps Trump gets credit that the possible turning point is now, not in 2 years. Trump will possibly earn credit when he caves in and rants against the NK poor deal, and alienates the US away from the deal making, which will help NK as KJU will act reasonably, and Asia as it will become a deal based on NK, SK, Asia and the global community.

My negative opinion on KJU hasn't changed, he is a tyrant, but he has managed the achievement of his goals perfectly. Should he continue to act well, NK will come out of this well, and there will be peace, and going by media coverage, everyone will put aside his tyrannic behaviour, and focus more on the greater good from here on.

"Those that don't, get shot."

Fixed that for you.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004403 29-Apr-2018 09:33

Geektastic:
tdgeek:

Fred99: Maybe KJU should get the peace prize. Only kidding, but it's possible he's been on a mission, held on to power against coup attempts - some possibly even supported by China to throw him out - and that mission was to move toward unification and modernisation, without capitulation.
He seems smart - way ahead of Trump anyway - if quality of rhetoric is a guide. At least he's got a sense of humour the dotard lacks.

I feel he is very smart, a marketing genius. His people live poorly yet they worship him. Those that don't, comply. He has stated he wants a nuclear capability to preserve his nation, the deterrent. He wants to be recognised. He wants the country to recover economically. Those that say Trump gets credit are false. But you can say Trump caused KJU to accelerate his plans, so perhaps Trump gets credit that the possible turning point is now, not in 2 years. Trump will possibly earn credit when he caves in and rants against the NK poor deal, and alienates the US away from the deal making, which will help NK as KJU will act reasonably, and Asia as it will become a deal based on NK, SK, Asia and the global community.

My negative opinion on KJU hasn't changed, he is a tyrant, but he has managed the achievement of his goals perfectly. Should he continue to act well, NK will come out of this well, and there will be peace, and going by media coverage, everyone will put aside his tyrannic behaviour, and focus more on the greater good from here on.

"Those that don't, get shot."

Fixed that for you.

Correct. And the Gulags, assassinating relatives, and so on. Thats all forgotten now, in favour of peace.

Should peace be achieved, sanctions dropped, they will need to attend to all those issues.

DaveB

1139 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2004588 29-Apr-2018 15:47

Fred99: Maybe KJU should get the peace prize. Only kidding, but it's possible he's been on a mission, held on to power against coup attempts - some possibly even supported by China to throw him out - and that mission was to move toward unification and modernisation, without capitulation.
He seems smart - way ahead of Trump anyway - if quality of rhetoric is a guide. At least he's got a sense of humour the dotard lacks.

Gotta love Americans. Even CNN are showing support for Trump!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/politics/donald-trump-korea/index.html

Some interesting comments from the news channel that has slammed just about everything Trump has done over the past 16 months.

Washington (CNN)Any way you cut it, President Donald Trump is entitled to significant credit for Friday's historic opening between the two Koreas.

Trump has not just claimed credit for accelerating diplomacy -- he has even said Moon had told him that without his strong stance, this year's Winter Olympics in South Korea would have been a "total failure."

"Clearly, credit goes to President Trump," South Korean Foreign Minister Kang Kyung-wha told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in Seoul. "He's been determined to come to grips with this from Day 1."

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2004620 29-Apr-2018 17:19

tdgeek:

Fred99: Maybe KJU should get the peace prize. Only kidding, but it's possible he's been on a mission, held on to power against coup attempts - some possibly even supported by China to throw him out - and that mission was to move toward unification and modernisation, without capitulation.
He seems smart - way ahead of Trump anyway - if quality of rhetoric is a guide. At least he's got a sense of humour the dotard lacks.

I feel he is very smart, a marketing genius. His people live poorly yet they worship him. Those that don't, comply. He has stated he wants a nuclear capability to preserve his nation, the deterrent. He wants to be recognised. He wants the country to recover economically. Those that say Trump gets credit are false. But you can say Trump caused KJU to accelerate his plans, so perhaps Trump gets credit that the possible turning point is now, not in 2 years. Trump will possibly earn credit when he caves in and rants against the NK poor deal, and alienates the US away from the deal making, which will help NK as KJU will act reasonably, and Asia as it will become a deal based on NK, SK, Asia and the global community.

My negative opinion on KJU hasn't changed, he is a tyrant, but he has managed the achievement of his goals perfectly. Should he continue to act well, NK will come out of this well, and there will be peace, and going by media coverage, everyone will put aside his tyrannic behaviour, and focus more on the greater good from here on.

I don't think enough is known about him.
The possibility has been presented that he's a charismatic figure who's genuinely intent on reform, has been able to (brutally) suppress challenges, but those challenges (including from family) may have been from supporters of "the party" and they in turn supported by China - who prefer the status quo to reunification. China will not support reunification if there are US troops stationed in S Korea (currently 25,000), as a unified Korea means that the US has 25,000 US troops capable of moving to the Chinese border - and nothing they can do about it.

He didn't start the NK nuclear arms program. He might have been able to stop it earlier (as he may be doing now) but timing is everything.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004638 29-Apr-2018 18:12

DaveB:

Fred99: Maybe KJU should get the peace prize. Only kidding, but it's possible he's been on a mission, held on to power against coup attempts - some possibly even supported by China to throw him out - and that mission was to move toward unification and modernisation, without capitulation.
He seems smart - way ahead of Trump anyway - if quality of rhetoric is a guide. At least he's got a sense of humour the dotard lacks.

Gotta love Americans. Even CNN are showing support for Trump!

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/politics/donald-trump-korea/index.html

Some interesting comments from the news channel that has slammed just about everything Trump has done over the past 16 months.

Washington (CNN)Any way you cut it, President Donald Trump is entitled to significant credit for Friday's historic opening between the two Koreas.

Trump has not just claimed credit for accelerating diplomacy -- he has even said Moon had told him that without his strong stance, this year's Winter Olympics in South Korea would have been a "total failure."

"Clearly, credit goes to President Trump," South Korean Foreign Minister Kang Kyung-wha told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in Seoul. "He's been determined to come to grips with this from Day 1."

Pretty funny. Its all politics. Probably to keep him onside I'd say. The bottom line is, these talks happened when KJU has his permanent nuclear capably in place.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004641 29-Apr-2018 18:20

Fred99:

tdgeek:

Fred99: Maybe KJU should get the peace prize. Only kidding, but it's possible he's been on a mission, held on to power against coup attempts - some possibly even supported by China to throw him out - and that mission was to move toward unification and modernisation, without capitulation.
He seems smart - way ahead of Trump anyway - if quality of rhetoric is a guide. At least he's got a sense of humour the dotard lacks.

I feel he is very smart, a marketing genius. His people live poorly yet they worship him. Those that don't, comply. He has stated he wants a nuclear capability to preserve his nation, the deterrent. He wants to be recognised. He wants the country to recover economically. Those that say Trump gets credit are false. But you can say Trump caused KJU to accelerate his plans, so perhaps Trump gets credit that the possible turning point is now, not in 2 years. Trump will possibly earn credit when he caves in and rants against the NK poor deal, and alienates the US away from the deal making, which will help NK as KJU will act reasonably, and Asia as it will become a deal based on NK, SK, Asia and the global community.

My negative opinion on KJU hasn't changed, he is a tyrant, but he has managed the achievement of his goals perfectly. Should he continue to act well, NK will come out of this well, and there will be peace, and going by media coverage, everyone will put aside his tyrannic behaviour, and focus more on the greater good from here on.

I don't think enough is known about him.
The possibility has been presented that he's a charismatic figure who's genuinely intent on reform, has been able to (brutally) suppress challenges, but those challenges (including from family) may have been from supporters of "the party" and they in turn supported by China - who prefer the status quo to reunification. China will not support reunification if there are US troops stationed in S Korea (currently 25,000), as a unified Korea means that the US has 25,000 US troops capable of moving to the Chinese border - and nothing they can do about it.

He didn't start the NK nuclear arms program. He might have been able to stop it earlier (as he may be doing now) but timing is everything.

Yes, its difficult to know much about him. But he has a plan. Unification is a bit like denuclearisation. It will happen, but in what form? It will start as family visits, adding to industrial cooperation. It can't go to one Korea, that removes KJU. The goal might be unification in many forms, but he still remains the Chairman of NK. It may operate like the Winter Olympics, two separate countries, but one unified team. That may work globally. two countries seemingly joined at the hip in many areas, but in essence two countries. The issue is what happens if NK citizens can travel freely? I guess many flee NK. Not sure what he will do about that.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2004682 29-Apr-2018 19:32

Fred99: China will not support reunification if there are US troops stationed in S Korea (currently 25,000), as a unified Korea means that the US has 25,000 US troops capable of moving to the Chinese border - and nothing they can do about it.

If you look at the work north and south have pursued for some years now, the likely outcome imight look something like a federal structure initially with trade and cultural links between north and south increasing rapidly from there.

This will double the size of the domestic market quite rapidly. Trade with China will increase at the same time.

Coincidentally SK just multibillion bailed out a GM owned company in SK and it will be good for GM as well.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004703 29-Apr-2018 20:33

gzt:
Fred99: China will not support reunification if there are US troops stationed in S Korea (currently 25,000), as a unified Korea means that the US has 25,000 US troops capable of moving to the Chinese border - and nothing they can do about it.

If you look at the work north and south have pursued for some years now, the likely outcome imight look something like a federal structure initially with trade and cultural links between north and south increasing rapidly from there.

This will double the size of the domestic market quite rapidly. Trade with China will increase at the same time.

Coincidentally SK just multibillion bailed out a GM owned company in SK and it will be good for GM as well.

Not double, SK population is 50 Million, NK 25. The financial stats don't compare as NK is dirt poor. They have only IIRC one piece of cooperation which is one industrial facility, which is based in NK. But yes, trade and cultural links will grow fast, or as fast as KJU can allow, as he needs to hold onto his people, the iron fist wont cut it now. I feel it will be slow, but grow exponentially.

I keep coming back to, what will NK citizens want to do? KJU needs to give them hope of prosperity, and deliver.

Pumpedd

1759 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2004763 29-Apr-2018 22:16

I am still very dubious about all this. Hope I am wrong. Yesterday he was the enemy of the world threatening all sorts with his recently acquired arsenal of nukes, and next day he is going to destroy them and be friends with the world?

This is the guy that murders his own family and allows his people to starve. There are no human rights whatsoever in NK.

Pumpedd

1759 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2004764 29-Apr-2018 22:16

This is the guy that murders his own family and allows his people to starve. There are no human rights whatsoever in NK.

I would want his hands tested for chemicals before they touched me.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2004786 29-Apr-2018 23:08

Pumpedd:

I am still very dubious about all this. Hope I am wrong. Yesterday he was the enemy of the world threatening all sorts with his recently acquired arsenal of nukes, and next day he is going to destroy them and be friends with the world?

This is the guy that murders his own family and allows his people to starve. There are no human rights whatsoever in NK.

Fair comments.

He hasn't said he will destroy them. He said he and SK want a denuclearised Korean Peninsula. USSR and USA had an agreement in the 70's that CNN stated was a denuclearisation plan. It did not include destroying them, it involved reducing all forms of related armament to set numbers. In fact as the US had a lower number of one type it could have actually increased them. The US will want removal, NK will want removal also from the US. Not happening. All I can see is non proliferation, so keeping the status quo. Accepting NK is a nuclear state. There was an article today about just that, makes sense.

Yes, he is that guy, and he is that bad, he is also smart. He won. He gets to keep his current weapons, happy to remove the test site as its all finished, being nice, so everyone prefers to embrace that and forget the rest in the name of peace, so he will get his recognition as head of state. Lastly he needs to sort NK economically, thats next. NK will end up joining global organisations as NK will be recognised as a State that can be included in such world affairs. Will trade with SK, China, and other countries, which will annoy the US, but the UN will be happy.

I figure he will attend to human rights issues, as China is also doing.

Smart cookie. He has got and will be getting what he wants, with literally zero effort. Nuclear Deterrent does work, as it did on the Cold War.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | ... | 11