Israel and Middle East 2023 War 2025 Accord

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MikeB4
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#3144921 10-Oct-2023 12:38

Hamas has been transformed radicallised to a new reincarnation of ISIS by the likes of Iran to fight a proxy war against Israeli civilians, children, elderly, disabled. They attacked unarmed civilians avoiding the IDF. These monsters are not freedom fighters they are terrorists.

Israel is the first target, all nations will need to heighten alert and security levels. This is a restart of the 70s and 80s

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

SJB

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#3144926 10-Oct-2023 12:49

SaltyNZ:

Ah, the roots go back a good few thousand years earlier than that to the half-brothers Ishmael and Isaac.

Agreed. But the Balfour Declaration lit the fuse.

ezbee

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#3144937 10-Oct-2023 13:32

If only the Ottoman Empire had not fallen, it would all be fine.
Lebanon and Syria would be fine too.

freitasm

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#3144949 10-Oct-2023 13:59

They told friends in Sydney they were safe. Then this entire family was massacred | Stuff.co.nz

Tamar sent a WhatsApp message from the bunker inside her home in the Nir Oz kibbutz, in southern Israel, reassuring her close friends in Sydney that the family was unharmed as their village came under missile attack.

“Hi guys, we got into the shelter in our house, we’re all going okay,” the message at 2.45pm on Saturday (Australian time) read.

An hour later, Tamar had stopped responding to messages. Her friends in Sydney, Yishai and Mor Lacob, began to panic.

The deafening silence was followed by the unthinkable. The Lacobs received word that the safe room had been breached and the entire family had been murdered by militants belonging to Hamas during its bloody rampage across southern Israel.

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MikeB4

MikeB4
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#3144953 10-Oct-2023 14:21

ezbee:

If only the Ottoman Empire had not fallen, it would all be fine.
Lebanon and Syria would be fine too.

umm no. Empires plant seeds that future generations have to deal with.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

wellygary

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#3144959 10-Oct-2023 14:43

Rikkitic:

Some time ago I predicted that a World War-scale conflict would occur in the foreseeable future. I don't know if this terrible tragedy qualifies, but it certainly could be a step in that direction. All I can see from here is a continuing downward spiral. I think the Doomsday clock has just moved up another notch.

The chances of conflict in the Middle east is one of those geopolitical possibilities that always exist

However, its probably no longer as much of a potential pre cursor to a wider global conflict as the US's oil reliance is significantly reduced compared to recent history-

This stops any spike in oil prices- ( which would occur in a wider conflict) becoming a trade and currency concern for the US (US consumers still suffer thou)

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gzt

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#3145121 10-Oct-2023 22:04

MikeB4: Hamas has been transformed radicallised to a new reincarnation of ISIS by the likes of Iran to fight a proxy war against Israeli civilians, children, elderly, disabled. They attacked unarmed civilians avoiding the IDF.

Numerous Israeli Defense Force military installations were directly attacked by Hamas forces and as you will agree military installations are the legitimate military targets consistent with the formal laws of armed conflict.

Any cases of civilian targets where non-combatant civilians have been intentionally murdered I agree with you +1000%. Islamic law is very specific that this is not allowed.

I believe you'll find there is significant disagreement within Hamas over the deliberate targeting of civilians. Those who took part in atrocities are murderers and war criminals. All atrocities should be fully documented and investigated by international prosecutors and tried by international courts.

gzt

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#3145125 10-Oct-2023 22:44

As for Netanyahu, in Israel he is widely believed to be corrupt and is both currently on trial and trying to limit the supreme court to get himself out of it. And you guessed it, when he lost the last election:

Times of Israel: Echoing Trump, Netanyahu says election stolen, ‘deep state’ within new coalition

Netanyahu did eventually manage to put together a new coalition even futher to the right to save his skin from justice temporarily once again. Netanyahu is not a man who cares about much except staying out of jail as long as he can by any means necessary.

freitasm

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#3145126 10-Oct-2023 22:46

gzt: As for Netanyahu, in Israel he is widely believed to be corrupt and is both currently on trial and trying to limit the supreme court to get himself out of it. And you guessed it when he lost the last election:

Times of Israel: Echoing Trump, Netanyahu says election stolen, ‘deep state’ within new coalition

Netanyahu did eventually manage to put together a new coalition even futher to the right to save his skin from justice temporarily once again. Netanyahu is not a man who cares about much except staying out of jail as long as he can by any means necessary.

So what? This is not about the PM but about a terrorist attack on the country.

The sentiment should be the same, one PM or another.

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freitasm

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#3145127 10-Oct-2023 22:49

gzt:
MikeB4: Hamas has been transformed radicallised to a new reincarnation of ISIS by the likes of Iran to fight a proxy war against Israeli civilians, children, elderly, disabled. They attacked unarmed civilians avoiding the IDF.

Numerous Israeli Defense Force military installations were directly attacked by Hamas forces and as you will agree military installations are the legitimate military targets consistent with the formal laws of armed conflict.

Any cases of civilian targets where non-combatant civilians have been intentionally murdered I agree with you +1000%. Islamic law is very specific that this is not allowed.

I believe you'll find there is significant disagreement within Hamas over the deliberate targeting of civilians. Those who took part in atrocities are murderers and war criminals. All atrocities should be fully documented and investigated by international prosecutors and tried by international courts.

Hamas doctrine is that any Israeli is a valid military target.

Hamas by their own definition does not recognise the Israeli state and their objective is the elimination of all Jews.

How does it fit with you view of Hamas?

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gzt

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#3145129 10-Oct-2023 23:03

freitasm: This is not about the PM but about a terrorist attack on the country. The sentiment should be the same, one PM or another.

I don't disagree. My opinion is the Al Asqa provocations of 2021 were totally unnecessary and the only purpose was to keep Netanyahu in power. It is significant that Netanyahu is having some difficulty - even at this time - forming an emergency government of national unity because other parties are wary in the extreme of being dragged into some even more crazy and extreme actions or some other get out of jail scheme.

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gzt

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#3145140 11-Oct-2023 00:09

freitasm: Hamas doctrine is that any Israeli is a valid military target. Hamas by their own definition does not recognise the Israeli state and their objective is the elimination of all Jews. How does it fit with you view of Hamas?

Several universities have online translations of the Hamas founding charter created when Hamas was very small. That does contain references to Jews and is clearly the work of a commitee. Senior Hamas leaders have stated that is no longer relevant.

The current leader of the Hamas political arm has said Hamas will accept the result of a referendum of all Palestinians in the territories and worldwide on the recognition of Israel if a Palestinian state is offered based on the 1967 borders and the right of return for refugees:

Reuters: We accept a Palestinian state on the borders of 1967, with Jerusalem as its capital, the release of Palestinian prisoners, and the resolution of the issue of refugees,” Haniyeh said, referring to the year of Middle East war in which Israel captured East Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories. “Hamas will respect the results (of a referendum) regardless of whether it differs with its ideology and principles,” he said, provided it included all Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank and the diaspora.

MikeB4

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#3145162 11-Oct-2023 07:38

How the hell is a baby in its bed a legitimate military target? Hamas has lost all imagined legitimacy when they chose to become war criminals.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

freitasm

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#3145163 11-Oct-2023 07:40

Or a family hiding in a safe room being slaughtered?

Some may find justification in history for the things they want but no way to rationalise murder.

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gzt

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#3145169 11-Oct-2023 07:43

MikeB4: How the hell is a baby in its bed a legitimate military target? Hamas has lost all imagined legitimacy when they chose to become war criminals.

It is not. Those and similar acts are insane and the work of madmen.

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