Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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MikeB4
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#2031405 7-Jun-2018 13:01

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

what is the source of the copy and paste?

Its a joke I heard years ago. Still valid today.

If I ever could have the privilege of meeting with Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern I would love to ask her the following questions:

Why do socialist regimes often find it necessary to prevent its citizens from leaving the country, whereas capitalist countries never do?
What is the difference between socialism and slavery? In both cases someone else is making all the decisions and forcing you to live your life in a particular way? (In other words in both cases there is no freedom).
To what extent should a person have private property?
If you despise capitalism so much, why not create separate communities (with other like-minded individuals) within our country, You are free to do so? (Note that the reverse is impossible).
Should distribution of wealth be decided by an elite few, or by the majority?
On what basis do you maintain that I am my brother’s keeper? What moral grounds give me the right to force any other human to live for my own sake?
Why is there always a net emigration out of socialist counties into capitalist countries?

Ummm I wouldn't or at least not with those questions, it would clearly show that you have no idea what socialism is.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Pumpedd

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#2031458 7-Jun-2018 15:09

MikeB4:

I don't consider the boom and bust economics of capitalism a success nor do I consider the deliberate inequality, poverty and elitism of capitalism as success.

Feel free to distribute your income/assets to those less fortunate.

MikeB4

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#2031461 7-Jun-2018 15:15

Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

I don't consider the boom and bust economics of capitalism a success nor do I consider the deliberate inequality, poverty and elitism of capitalism as success.

Feel free to distribute your income/assets to those less fortunate.

We already do that, NZ has a system of socialism.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

rjt123

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#2031486 7-Jun-2018 15:43

MikeB4:
Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

I don't consider the boom and bust economics of capitalism a success nor do I consider the deliberate inequality, poverty and elitism of capitalism as success.

Feel free to distribute your income/assets to those less fortunate.

We already do that, NZ has a system of socialism.

We have a system of social welfare. Just one facet of socialism.

I think MikeB4 was suggesting u donate your house and car to society.

MikeB4

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#2031488 7-Jun-2018 15:47

rjt123:
MikeB4:

Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

I don't consider the boom and bust economics of capitalism a success nor do I consider the deliberate inequality, poverty and elitism of capitalism as success.

Feel free to distribute your income/assets to those less fortunate.

We already do that, NZ has a system of socialism.

We have a system of social welfare. Just one facet of socialism.

I think MikeB4 was suggesting u donate your house and car to society.

I am almost 100% certain I have not made a suggestion of that nature.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

rjt123

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#2031537 7-Jun-2018 16:00

MikeB4:
I am almost 100% certain I have not made a suggestion of that nature.

Whoops quoted the wrong person. 🤦‍♂️. Change that to @Pumpped.

However your previous comments suggest you'd be happy to any day, no?

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Wiggum

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#2031539 7-Jun-2018 16:02

Socialism makes people selfish.....

MikeB4

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#2031545 7-Jun-2018 16:26

Wiggum:

Socialism makes people selfish.....

What a load of bollocks

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

6FIEND

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#2031570 7-Jun-2018 17:18

MikeB4:

I don't consider the boom and bust economics of capitalism a success nor do I consider the deliberate inequality, poverty and elitism of capitalism as success.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. But in a measurable sense, the rise of Capitalism has done more to reduce inequality and poverty than any other socio-economic system. Ever.

Here are 5 examples in support of that:

1. The number of people living in extreme poverty worldwide declined by 80 percent from 1970 to 2006. People living on a dollar a day or less dramatically fell from 26.8 percent of the global population in 1970 to 5.4 percent in 2006 – an 80 percent decline. It is a truly remarkable achievement that doesn't receive a lot of media coverage because it highlights the success of capitalism.

"It was globalization, free trade, the boom in international entrepreneurship," American Enterprise Institute (AEI) president Arthur Brooks said in a 2012 speech. "In short, it was the free enterprise system, American style, which is our gift to the world."

2. Poverty worldwide included 94 percent of the world's population in 1820. In 2011, it was only 17 percent. What is even more incredible is that the global poverty rate was 53 percent in 1981, causing the decline from 53 percent to 17 percent to be "the most rapid reduction in poverty in world history."

"Since the onset of industrialisation – and as a consequence of this, economic growth — the share of people living in poverty started decreasing and kept on falling ever since," wrote Oxford University's Martin Roeser, who compiled the aforementioned data.

Roeser's chart illustrates this:

3. Globally, those in the lower and middle income brackets saw increases in pay of 40 percent from 1988 to 2008. According to the Adam Smith's Institute's Ben Southwood:

Those in the middle and bottom of the world income distribution have all got pay rises of around 40% between 1988-2008. Global inequality of life expectancy and height are narrowing too – showing better nutrition and better healthcare where it matters most. What we should care about is the welfare of the poor, not the wealth of the rich.

4. The world is 120 times better off today than in 1800 as a result of capitalism.The Foundation for Economic Education's (FEE) Steven Horwtiz, citing author Deidre McCloskey, noted that the 120 times figure comes from multiplying "the gains in consumption to the average human by the gain in life expectancy worldwide by 7 (for 7 billion as compared to 1 billion people)."

"The competitive market process has also made education, art, and culture available to more and more people," wrote Horwitz. "Even the poorest of Americans, not to mention many of the global poor, have access through the Internet and TV to concerts, books, and works of art that were exclusively the province of the wealthy for centuries."

Horwitz added capitalism has also resulted in people spending "a much smaller percentage of our lives working for pay" due to the increased value of labor and has produced higher life expectancy "by decades."

5. Mortality rates for children under the age of five declined by 49 percent from 1990 to 2013. This is according to World Health Organization (WHO) data, a decline termed "faster than ever." Capitalism results in lower child mortality rates by producing better access to medicine and standards of living.

Geektastic

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#2031589 7-Jun-2018 17:56

MikeB4:
I don't consider the boom and bust economics of capitalism a success nor do I consider the deliberate inequality, poverty and elitism of capitalism as success.

Life isn't fair and never will be. An economic system that reflects reality seems most likely to succeed.

Capitalism rewards hard work, effort and intelligence, all of which are obvious things to reward. Socialism doesn't, it penalises them in order to fund the less useful, the more idle, the less efficient.

Capitalism isn't perfect but it certainly beats socialism. As the great Mrs Thatcher observed in 1976

"SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS TRADITIONALLY DO MAKE A FINANCIAL MESS. THEY ALWAYS RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY. It’s quite a characteristic of them."

MikeAqua

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#2031592 7-Jun-2018 17:59

MikeB4:

The Nordic variation of socialism has been successful.

Funded by puckering tax rates and very successful capitalism. Oil, fish, forestry, tourism and associated manufacturing and supply/service industries.

Mike

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MikeB4

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#2031598 7-Jun-2018 18:10

Now consider the total cost if you had to meet the full cost of health care, education, and all the other services collectively funded

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Geektastic

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#2031602 7-Jun-2018 18:19

MikeB4:

Now consider the total cost if you had to meet the full cost of health care, education, and all the other services collectively funded

That's only something you can do if you also consider the reduction in your tax bill that would accompany that scenario. You have to view it in light of what your income would be then, not what it is now.

MikeB4

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#2031692 7-Jun-2018 20:03

food for thought, one of the medications I take every fortnight without subsidy would cost me $3,900 per injection or over $100,000 per annum. One of my specialists would cost over $300 per month.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

rjt123

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#2031707 7-Jun-2018 20:51

MikeB4:
food for thought, one of the medications I take every fortnight without subsidy would cost me $3,900 per injection or over $100,000 per annum. One of my specialists would cost over $300 per month.

Of course you'd also have to bear in mind that research and development are characteristic of a capitalist economy, because the drug companies are trying to get a competitive advantage.

Likewise doctors, if everyone is guaranteed social security why would you put in the effort to become a doctor, especially if you won't get paid any more than anyone else.

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