J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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#1860817 8-Sep-2017 12:31

MikeB4:

I don't get all the stuff about Jacinda Ardern having no expertise, the argument is a smoke screen. If one was to follow the logic a PM or would be PM would have to be expert in Finance, Health, transport, Defence, Justice, Foreign Affairs, Law, Welfare, Agriculture, all disciplines of science, Manufacturing, statistics and so on. On that basis no one ever would qualify to be PM. We have advisors a government departments for this reason.

Who is Labours proposed Finance Minister?

networkn

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#1860819 8-Sep-2017 12:37

MikeB4:

I don't get all the stuff about Jacinda Ardern having no expertise, the argument is a smoke screen. If one was to follow the logic a PM or would be PM would have to be expert in Finance, Health, transport, Defence, Justice, Foreign Affairs, Law, Welfare, Agriculture, all disciplines of science, Manufacturing, statistics and so on. On that basis no one ever would qualify to be PM. We have advisors a government departments for this reason.

The PM usually has some expertise in some area. What does JA have experience in, other than politics?

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#1860820 8-Sep-2017 12:37

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

I don't get all the stuff about Jacinda Ardern having no expertise, the argument is a smoke screen. If one was to follow the logic a PM or would be PM would have to be expert in Finance, Health, transport, Defence, Justice, Foreign Affairs, Law, Welfare, Agriculture, all disciplines of science, Manufacturing, statistics and so on. On that basis no one ever would qualify to be PM. We have advisors a government departments for this reason.

Who is Labours proposed Finance Minister?

Grant Robertson I think?

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#1860821 8-Sep-2017 12:37

Labour's current finance spokesman is Grant Robertson I would assume he would retain that role

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#1860824 8-Sep-2017 12:44

networkn:

I can't get on board with this. You are stating that National has no plan, I say they have a plan. They are releasing policies all the time, the same as Labour is. I don't see Labours plans being more "innovative" than National. What do you see Labour has an advantage of in policies?

They are negative on points they feel are negative. I feel pointing out JA's lack of experience and financial expertise, and the lack of details in the policies which even after 3 debates she hasn't managed to improve, isn't unreasonable by any stretch.

Labours advantage in policy is in their messaging. They are spending their time talking about the things they are going to do, not about why National's plan won't work. National's messaging is all about why Labour is bad and it's killing them, the same as it killed then in 1999 and Labour in 2008.

Steven Joyces 11 billion red herring has become a mill stone for them because now they have to spend all their time trying to defend it rather than talk about their plans.

The evidence says that their approach to this election is failing.

Wiggum

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#1860827 8-Sep-2017 12:45

MikeB4: Labour's current finance spokesman is Grant Robertson I would assume he would retain that role

Oh hell OK, If I ever needed a reason not to vote Labour, there it is right there.

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#1860828 8-Sep-2017 12:47

Wiggum:

Varkk:

Yes why would she use a nice round number people can easily understand? Also it is common for councils, businesses and all kinds of organisations to have 5, 10 and 15 year plans. But yes let us pick up on it not matching cleanly with the electoral cycle. Seems you are looking to attack and nitpick for the sake of it.

Your comment makes no sense because the signboard itself refers to 3 years for the opposition. Why is that? Clearly its referring to an election cycle.

What?! You've got all the pieces of the puzzle, just not put them all in the right place!

Yes, the three years relates to National - it's saying National (and their policies) are driven by the three-yearly election cycle.

The 10 years, is referencing Labour takes a longer-term planning outlook; as others have pointed out, 10 years is a common timeframe for planning - eg the requirement for NZ councils to have a long-term plan that covers a period no less than 10 years.

Whether or not that's an accurate characterisation is a more relevant point than simply trying to score points on the "maths" (over which you've essentially scored an own goal...).

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MikeB4

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#1860859 8-Sep-2017 12:56

Wiggum:

MikeB4: Labour's current finance spokesman is Grant Robertson I would assume he would retain that role

Oh hell OK, If I ever needed a reason not to vote Labour, there it is right there.

Why what is wrong with Grant Robertson?

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#1860863 8-Sep-2017 13:00

MikeB4:

I don't get all the stuff about Jacinda Ardern having no expertise, the argument is a smoke screen. If one was to follow the logic a PM or would be PM would have to be expert in Finance, Health, transport, Defence, Justice, Foreign Affairs, Law, Welfare, Agriculture, all disciplines of science, Manufacturing, statistics and so on. On that basis no one ever would qualify to be PM. We have advisors a government departments for this reason.

Agree completely with the above. I think the right wing is seeing the writing on the wall and are resorting to desperate tactics to try to turn the tide.

What really impresses me about Ardern, especially after the last debate, is her ability to hold her own against Bill English and give as good as she gets. This is not as easy as she makes it look. English is a very capable and seasoned debater, with a good grasp of the facts that he deems relevant. For someone relatively young with relatively little comparable experience, I think Jacinda is really rising to the occasion. She is confident, fluent, quick on her feet and not intimidated by the elder Bill English. These are great qualities in a leader. I think she will learn fast and do well. No-one on the world stage is going to outshine her.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#1860867 8-Sep-2017 13:06

For me the main attributes for a PM is the ability to relate to people, leadership and communications.

Rikkitic

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#1860869 8-Sep-2017 13:09

Barring unforeseen circumstances (always possible with this election), Jacinda Ardern is going to be the next Prime Minister of New Zealand. Those who find this a disturbing thought might want to start preparing for it.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#1860870 8-Sep-2017 13:13

Rikkitic:

Barring unforeseen circumstances (always possible with this election), Jacinda Ardern is going to be the next Prime Minister of New Zealand. Those who find this a disturbing thought might want to start preparing for it.

So you've already said.

gulfa

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#1860872 8-Sep-2017 13:17

Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

I don't get all the stuff about Jacinda Ardern having no expertise, the argument is a smoke screen. If one was to follow the logic a PM or would be PM would have to be expert in Finance, Health, transport, Defence, Justice, Foreign Affairs, Law, Welfare, Agriculture, all disciplines of science, Manufacturing, statistics and so on. On that basis no one ever would qualify to be PM. We have advisors a government departments for this reason.

Agree completely with the above. I think the right wing is seeing the writing on the wall and are resorting to desperate tactics to try to turn the tide.

What really impresses me about Ardern, especially after the last debate, is her ability to hold her own against Bill English and give as good as she gets. This is not as easy as she makes it look. English is a very capable and seasoned debater, with a good grasp of the facts that he deems relevant. For someone relatively young with relatively little comparable experience, I think Jacinda is really rising to the occasion. She is confident, fluent, quick on her feet and not intimidated by the elder Bill English. These are great qualities in a leader. I think she will learn fast and do well. No-one on the world stage is going to outshine her.

As I have previously stated a school teacher would not be a suitable person to run the finance portfolio (not picking on school teachers) We need people who have experience in those field I could almost predict that eventually Greg O'Connor will probably be involved in the Law and Order or police. I am sure most of the public who listened to his voice involving police matters would have been impressed I am sure there are other Labour party members who have expertise to fill the rolls of Ministers.(if elected) We will see some will probably be very successful and others may fail just as we see in the present government. (Don't ask me to say who the ones are who have failed in this Government make your own decisions)

frednz

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#1860873 8-Sep-2017 13:19

Rikkitic:

Barring unforeseen circumstances (always possible with this election), Jacinda Ardern is going to be the next Prime Minister of New Zealand. Those who find this a disturbing thought might want to start preparing for it.

John Key prepared for it months ago! A more disturbing thought is who is going to be Deputy Prime Minister. Start preparing for Winston?

tdgeek

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#1860875 8-Sep-2017 13:23

frednz:

Rikkitic:

Barring unforeseen circumstances (always possible with this election), Jacinda Ardern is going to be the next Prime Minister of New Zealand. Those who find this a disturbing thought might want to start preparing for it.

John Key prepared for it months ago! A more disturbing thought is who is going to be Deputy Prime Minister. Start preparing for Winston?

She said no on the second TV debate, as did Bill (quickly) Nor Finance. Grant Robertson will be deputy.

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