Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3506010 25-Jun-2026 13:29

Qiulae Wong's public statements this morning indicate Opportunity will prefer other minor policies in the areas of means testing superannuation and some tweaks in climate policy and AI. It's pretty clear Opportunity is open for business and will be waiting for a call after the election.

gzt

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#3506011 25-Jun-2026 13:32

MikeAqua:
gzt: As yet you have provided no evidence that Opportunity refuses to work with NZ First.
My claim is that they won't in the future work with NZF. I have provided evidence for this. Specifically, TOP positing themselves as an alternative to NZF. Not sure how I could be any clearer.

You could be clearer by providing the interview where you claimed Opportunity refused point blank to work with NZ First.

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#3506012 25-Jun-2026 13:33

Leaving aside the fact that I have already had to facepalm twice in the last two days at AI-generated garbage I have had to correct, Luxon is all on board ... But that's not the worst part.

Luxon said the goal was to "brutally commercialise our science system".

"I want professors to become millionaires because they're partnering with entrepreneurs and building out businesses ... where that interface between universities and entrepreneurship and government is all joined up, like we see in other parts of the world too."

With that attitude, Einstein would never have got funding to publish his theories of Special and General Relativity, without which much of the 21st century global economy would come to a near immediate screeching halt by way of there being no satellite navigation systems which underpin not just positioning but timing. Modern networks would collapse without easy access to microsecond-accurate clocks.

Luxon, you muppet.

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#3506015 25-Jun-2026 13:48

gzt:
You could be clearer by providing the interview where you claimed Opportunity refused point blank to work with NZ First.

I didn't say Wong refused to work with NZF point blank. I said they posited themselves as an alternative to NZF. That's not the same as an explicit refusal, but it has the same effect.

It's the interview I listened to last time I was driving back from Nelson. Does that help?

Let's approach this a different way:

1) Would you agree that Wong is positing her party as an alternative to NZF?

2) Would you agree that an alternative excludes the thing it is an alternative to?

Mike

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#3506016 25-Jun-2026 13:50

Article: Luxon: "We're really stuck in a 1995 way of doing things. Why can't a 32-year-old mother who needs eyeglasses for the nine-year-old daughter and wants to understand your tax rebates for the, you know, with an 11-year-old and nine-year-old daughters actually be able to just do an inquiry rather [than] have to go to MSD and IRD and all that stuff?

The answer Mr Luxon is that the technology does not yet provide that level of reliability and flexibility right out of the box. It is the same answer you will be given for many corporate applications. Yes, it can be built. I mean if you want to go rushing into I.T projects then yolo it all the way. But also if you're willing to tolerate a significant degree of badly rushed ensh**ification then by all means..

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#3506020 25-Jun-2026 13:57

MikeAqua: I didn't say Wong refused to work with NZF point blank.

Your specific claim more or less repeated several times was exactly that:

MikeAqua: Wong has ruled out TOP working with NZF (in an RNZ interview),

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MikeAqua

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#3506022 25-Jun-2026 14:21

gzt:
Your specific claim more or less repeated several times was exactly that:

MikeAqua: Wong has ruled out TOP working with NZF (in an RNZ interview)]

Yes 'ruled out' I have explained my rationale for that. That is not 'point blank refused' those are your words.

Perhaps stop trying to put words in my mouth and address the issue.

Mike

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#3506026 25-Jun-2026 14:35

You have explained your rationale for earlier claiming that Opportunity ruled out NZ First without any evidence that Opportunity ruled out NZ First except your own rationale for your own claim.

Yes, I accept you got it wrong.

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#3506035 25-Jun-2026 15:13

gzt: You have explained your rationale for earlier claiming that Opportunity ruled out NZ First without any evidence that Opportunity ruled out NZ First except your own rationale for your own claim.

My evidence is that they are positing themselves as an alternate to NZF. Do you dispute that they are do so? Yes or no?

Mike

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#3506040 25-Jun-2026 15:39

It would seem that Opportunity is opposed to NZ Firsts values. Mikes position seems pretty reasonable

Wong told Morning Report on Tuesday she saw Opportunity as replacing New Zealand First as the country's political 'kingmaker'.

"I believe they stand for division and they use division to get votes, whereas we want to actually find common ground and bring people together, particularly our major parties who do actually agree on a lot of stuff a lot of the time, but they do need a bit of a broker sometimes to move forward and make sure that we hold them accountable.

"I think they also have a bit of a nostalgic view of what New Zealand could be and want to take us backwards to the past, whereas Opportunity is very much focused on taking us forward."

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#3506047 25-Jun-2026 16:22

MikeAqua:
gzt: You have explained your rationale for earlier claiming that Opportunity ruled out NZ First without any evidence that Opportunity ruled out NZ First except your own rationale for your own claim.
My evidence is that they are positing themselves as an alternate to NZF. Do you dispute that they are do so? Yes or no?

Sure, yes they would like to replace NZ First in the current government equation National+ACT+NZ First. If National is the party with largest number of votes as required by the governor general National will be asked to form a government. And, if that equation comes up one or two seats short of a majority in parliament then:

"Wong said the party would be happy to support a minority government from the cross-benches"

Wong has made numerous statements about stability and predictability and so on. It's pretty clear to me that means supporting the lead party. My view is everything Wong has said points in that direction and nothing excludes NZ First in the case NZ First has more seats than Opportunity in that situation.

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gzt

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#3506098 25-Jun-2026 16:59

Your view is different and could be stated as something along the lines of Opportunity will not support any government that includes NZ First - but the fact is Wong has never said that. And for a very good reason. Opportunity wants the option to support a government containing NZ First if Opportunity decides that is best for stability on the day.

Realistically there is no outcome until Wong is specifically asked that question and addresses it.

We will bet on different outcomes.

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#3506163 26-Jun-2026 06:30

SaltyNZ:

With that attitude, Einstein would never have got funding to publish his theories of Special and General Relativity...

The theory of Special Relativity that was published for free while Einstein was working as a patent examiner? That one? Or the theory of general relativity which was also published for free?

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#3506198 26-Jun-2026 08:53

Handle9:

SaltyNZ:

With that attitude, Einstein would never have got funding to publish his theories of Special and General Relativity...

The theory of Special Relativity that was published for free while Einstein was working as a patent examiner? That one? Or the theory of general relativity which was also published for free?

Yes, he was a patent examiner. He was also studying at the University of Zurich, and his work was based on advancements by others such as Lorentz (who first came up with the idea that the rules are the same for everyone moving together in an inertial frame), Riemann (various types of non-Euclidean geometry and early work on tensors) and a bunch of others. I don't think Luxon is interested in a detailed history of the lives of all the people leading up to Einstein's distillation of it all into two simple mathematical theories: the point is that neither Einstein nor the rest were paid to work on any of it because of some expectation of making a miraculous new technology, let alone any sort of profit. And as you point out, the work was publicly released for free or at least the cost of buying a journal, further underscoring my actual point.

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#3506348 26-Jun-2026 14:54

SaltyNZ:

Handle9:

The theory of Special Relativity that was published for free while Einstein was working as a patent examiner? That one? Or the theory of general relativity which was also published for free?

Yes, he was a patent examiner. He was also studying at the University of Zurich, and his work was based on advancements by others such as Lorentz (who first came up with the idea that the rules are the same for everyone moving together in an inertial frame), Riemann (various types of non-Euclidean geometry and early work on tensors) and a bunch of others. I don't think Luxon is interested in a detailed history of the lives of all the people leading up to Einstein's distillation of it all into two simple mathematical theories: the point is that neither Einstein nor the rest were paid to work on any of it because of some expectation of making a miraculous new technology, let alone any sort of profit. And as you point out, the work was publicly released for free or at least the cost of buying a journal, further underscoring my actual point.

Nah. You were going for a zinger and failed.

Having industry and the universities better aligned makes a great deal of sense if you want to have any wealth available to redistribute. It happens to some extent with some universities. There’s an opportunity for that to be better.

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