NZ Election 2020

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#2524682 17-Jul-2020 12:50

GV27:

tdgeek:

Buses and trains are a similar width. Where the LR track goes, thats now a bus lane. If its quiet one bus per hour if its busy one after the other like a train. If AKL developpement evolves in such a way that the train is left demand stranded and needed elsewhere, buses can adapt better to that. the LR option HAS and MUST be right otherwose it may end up a great option in the wrong place

The NW busway will almost certainly be future-proofed for light rail, so that's something.

Interesting to note that they have given a firm commitment to a lot of rail stuff in there, extra mains and Southdown also hinted at - trying to court Winston's pro-rail voters, or Winston himself?

Id say so. Whats the deal with the work that starts in 2028? is this not really about using Covid money to generate work now for todays covid caused economic woes? But buy NZF votes and start on a fancy tunnel in 8 years time?

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#2524743 17-Jul-2020 13:34

tdgeek:

Id say so. Whats the deal with the work that starts in 2028? is this not really about using Covid money to generate work now for todays covid caused economic woes? But buy NZF votes and start on a fancy tunnel in 8 years time?

Get the NZ First votes now, give yourself five more years to hint that Light Rail and bridges are far more cost effective for what you're trying to achieve. 😆

Wander4821

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#2524786 17-Jul-2020 14:28

GV27:
tdgeek:

Id say so. Whats the deal with the work that starts in 2028? is this not really about using Covid money to generate work now for todays covid caused economic woes? But buy NZF votes and start on a fancy tunnel in 8 years time?

Get the NZ First votes now, give yourself five more years to hint that Light Rail and bridges are far more cost effective for what you're trying to achieve. 😆

Maybe National can promise a 500 billion dollar tunnel between the North and South Island to win NZ First votes. Call it Think Big 2.0.

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#2524792 17-Jul-2020 14:39

Wander4821:

Maybe National can promise a 500 billion dollar tunnel between the North and South Island to win NZ First votes. Call it Think Big 2.0.

Thats silly, but 400 Billion is ok, thats for the PGF Personal Gift Fund.... /s

On a serious note though, I supported Labour last time (been a wee while) but I would rather National win solo than anyone of them winning AND taking NZF on board. If Labour gets a mandate or National gets a mandate, they can do what they like, after all they were voted in. But this coalition farce is no more than wasting time as stuff doesnt get done, and billions get handed out as bribes

Yes, I know, both major parties poll under 50% then what.

Handle9

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#2524835 17-Jul-2020 16:13

tdgeek:
I'd do road widening and buses myself. Cheaper to do roads, cheaper to do buses, and more flexible

You missed out the part where buses are fairly useless for moving large numbers of people in rush hour. The northern busway will be maxed out in 2031 and already has capacity problems.

No one raves about the quality buses in major cities, true mass transit is required for routes that are already saturated.

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#2524867 17-Jul-2020 17:29

Handle9:
tdgeek:

I'd do road widening and buses myself. Cheaper to do roads, cheaper to do buses, and more flexible

You missed out the part where buses are fairly useless for moving large numbers of people in rush hour. The northern busway will be maxed out in 2031 and already has capacity problems.

No one raves about the quality buses in major cities, true mass transit is required for routes that are already saturated.

My point was you can have buses once an hour when quiet and one after the other when busy, and if the space reserved for rail tracks was buses, you can have a bus train. Ideal? Maybe not but its far more flexible. If the development if AKL was guaranteed as to where the population lives, them LR is great but you can't shift that easily. As for rail, we need to remove the issue that cars dominate its all about roads. If you replaced cars with buses that works, as the same applies to rail. Rail news tracks and once they are in place that are fixed, you need to hope that the demand stays there forever. If roads were designed for buses, and cars are second priority that can work.

Whats the difference between 5 carriages and a continual stream of buses the same capacity?

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Handle9

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#2524869 17-Jul-2020 17:32

tdgeek:

Handle9:

You missed out the part where buses are fairly useless for moving large numbers of people in rush hour. The northern busway will be maxed out in 2031 and already has capacity problems.

No one raves about the quality buses in major cities, true mass transit is required for routes that are already saturated.

My point was you can have buses once an hour when quiet and one after the other when busy, and if the space reserved for rail tracks was buses, you can have a bus train. Ideal? Maybe not but its far more flexible. If the development if AKL was guaranteed as to where the population lives, them LR is great but you can't shift that easily. As for rail, we need to remove the issue that cars dominate its all about roads. If you replaced cars with buses that works, as the same applies to rail. Rail news tracks and once they are in place that are fixed, you need to hope that the demand stays there forever. If roads were designed for buses, and cars are second priority that can work.

Whats the difference between 5 carriages and a continual stream of buses the same capacity?

You don't have the same capacity. That is the point. Why do you think light rail is built instead of just buying buses?

Once the northern busway is maxed out then the next step to improve capacity is light rail, which will be expensive and disrupt the existing busway.

tdgeek

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#2524879 17-Jul-2020 17:44

Handle9:

You don't have the same capacity. That is the point. Why do you think light rail is built instead of just buying buses?

Once the northern busway is maxed out then the next step to improve capacity is light rail, which will be expensive and disrupt the existing busway.

Why do both parties not want LR?

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#2524903 17-Jul-2020 18:30

tdgeek:

Why do both parties not want LR?

I don't know, but I do know that each bus needs a driver. Buses are also environmental disasters unless they are electric or similar. Europe is full of light rail and that exists for a reason. Buses are a crap solution (in my opinion), suitable only as temporary fill-in.

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#2524912 17-Jul-2020 18:40

I'd love to see heavy rail to the North Shore and then connect up at the existing line in Wellsford, taking in the catchment areas on the Hibiscus Coast...but not sure that will happen in my lifetime.

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#2524917 17-Jul-2020 18:50

Rikkitic:

tdgeek:

Why do both parties not want LR?

I don't know, but I do know that each bus needs a driver. Buses are also environmental disasters unless they are electric or similar. Europe is full of light rail and that exists for a reason. Buses are a crap solution (in my opinion), suitable only as temporary fill-in.

Electric off course. At least they aren't locked in to a track forever. End of the day its just seats. Not sure if Europe equates to NZ

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#2524927 17-Jul-2020 18:55

You may be right but AKL isnt big, its got to be well priced, I figure a LR solution that isnt well supported will be very costly to run.

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#2524936 17-Jul-2020 19:18

tdgeek:
Handle9:

You don't have the same capacity. That is the point. Why do you think light rail is built instead of just buying buses?

Once the northern busway is maxed out then the next step to improve capacity is light rail, which will be expensive and disrupt the existing busway.

Why do both parties not want LR?

Since when did labour not want light rail?

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#2524938 17-Jul-2020 19:19

tdgeek:
You may be right but AKL isnt big, its got to be well priced, I figure a LR solution that isnt well supported will be very costly to run.

Show me a major public transport project in Auckland that hasn't significantly exceeded projected passenger numbers.

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#2524940 17-Jul-2020 19:20

tdgeek:
Electric off course. At least they aren't locked in to a track forever. End of the day its just seats. Not sure if Europe equates to NZ

Ahh it's New Zealand exceptionalism.

Show me a city with high quality public transport based on buses.

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