Protesters removed from Skandi Atlantic in Timaru port

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Awrrr
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#2361352 27-Nov-2019 09:12

gzt: Some of this talk is irresponsible and could lead to people being harmed The reality is no captain will set sail in these conditions. For one simple reason. The captain is responsible for the safety of everyone on board.

The rest is talkback radio fantasy.

Hallelujah, an adult in the room!

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Dingbatt

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#2361355 27-Nov-2019 09:20

I like that the protester is quoted talking about “stupid laws”. I assume he’s talking about trespass and property laws? So if I’m a ‘Holden Guy’ and really hate Fords, I’m justified in ignoring arson laws and burning down a Ford dealership? (Exaggeration for effect, and not suggesting anyone should do this (and it’s ridiculous to even have to state this but I could feel the keyboards warming up before I even posted)).

And they’ve obviously been schooled in how to counter comments about their hypocrisy in using oil based products for transport, clothing, equipment, etc.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2361792 27-Nov-2019 19:26

gzt: Some of this talk is irresponsible and could lead to people being harmed The reality is no captain will set sail in these conditions. For one simple reason. The captain is responsible for the safety of everyone on board.

The rest is talkback radio fantasy.

tdgeek: Sailing and keeping them safe are not mutually exclusive.

In this case it was. Good position to die of exposure on that mast while making way.

If you are talking about safety and being irresponsible , look towards the protesters.

If the vessel had sailed in that condition it would have been a risk to the vessel and crew. The captain made exactly the right decision.

What you are suggesting is encouraging illegal and unsafe behaviour. If you wish to encourage lawlessness and anarchy, that's your opinion

You have suggested sailing with significant risks to safe navigation. Captains don't do that. End of story. That is clearly unsafe for all concerned. It's likely any court would find that action illegal also.

Going by media reports it looks like there could be more actions of this nature coming up. I suggest you refrain from exacerbating.

Rikkitic

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#2361793 27-Nov-2019 19:28

Exacerbation. Oh god that feels soooo good!

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tdgeek

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#2361888 28-Nov-2019 07:06

gzt:
gzt: Some of this talk is irresponsible and could lead to people being harmed The reality is no captain will set sail in these conditions. For one simple reason. The captain is responsible for the safety of everyone on board.

The rest is talkback radio fantasy.

tdgeek: Sailing and keeping them safe are not mutually exclusive.

In this case it was. Good position to die of exposure on that mast while making way.

If you are talking about safety and being irresponsible , look towards the protesters.

If the vessel had sailed in that condition it would have been a risk to the vessel and crew. The captain made exactly the right decision.

What you are suggesting is encouraging illegal and unsafe behaviour. If you wish to encourage lawlessness and anarchy, that's your opinion

You have suggested sailing with significant risks to safe navigation. Captains don't do that. End of story. That is clearly unsafe for all concerned. It's likely any court would find that action illegal also.

Going by media reports it looks like there could be more actions of this nature coming up. I suggest you refrain from exacerbating.

Off course they wont sail with them on the masts, thats ridiculous to assume of my post. If there are more protests of this nature its because we allow them. We seem to want to cut these protesters a slack. If you read what they stated to the media you can tell they are just pure activists than concerned citizens. The many times they have attacked ships at sea, the Captain has them sprayed with high pressure hoses, that would be unsafe? Perhaps not do that? It doesnt seem to matter if these people put the ship at risk and themselves. They can endanger others but we are not allowed to remove them? And you wonder why more protests of this nature will occur

Rikkitic

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#2362074 28-Nov-2019 09:35

What I find amusing about this thread is how similar the angry comments about the protesters are to those expressed by supporters of mainland China in Hong Kong.

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tdgeek

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#2362086 28-Nov-2019 09:42

Rikkitic:

What I find amusing about this thread is how similar the angry comments about the protesters are to those expressed by supporters of mainland China in Hong Kong.

Angry comments? Not seen them. I wonder how much support there is here for the protesters? Are they allowed to freely endanger themselves and others or not? No. If there is support for them, thats false support, they are activists not concerned about NZ. We need more people who have a genuine concern for NZ than those that are layabouts looking for any cause. Driving a diesel van? Take a train. Not prepared to stay on the ship as you have a New Plymouth gig ready to go?

Pretty fake IMHO

To compare Hong Kong to these layabouts is a big stretch

Rikkitic

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#2362119 28-Nov-2019 10:01

I'm comparing the responses of those triggered by it. And comments about sailing while leaving them tied to the masts, and other vengeance-based remarks. The purpose of protest is to focus attention on the thing being protested. I would say they accomplished that nicely, and it doesn't matter how their van was fueled.

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JaseNZ

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#2362121 28-Nov-2019 10:03

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

What I find amusing about this thread is how similar the angry comments about the protesters are to those expressed by supporters of mainland China in Hong Kong.

Angry comments? Not seen them. I wonder how much support there is here for the protesters? Are they allowed to freely endanger themselves and others or not? No. If there is support for them, thats false support, they are activists not concerned about NZ. We need more people who have a genuine concern for NZ than those that are layabouts looking for any cause. Driving a diesel van? Take a train. Not prepared to stay on the ship as you have a New Plymouth gig ready to go?

Pretty fake IMHO

To compare Hong Kong to these layabouts is a big stretch

I would agree i don't see any angry comment's, If they want to protest protest but do it on the wharf or public land not on the boat where they are endangering not only themselves but the people around them. Do I support them no not in the slightest but they have a right to protest as long as its legal which in this case its not.

To compare this to Hong Kong is just silly.

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#2362127 28-Nov-2019 10:10

Rikkitic:

I'm comparing the responses of those triggered by it. And comments about sailing while leaving them tied to the masts, and other vengeance-based remarks. The purpose of protest is to focus attention on the thing being protested. I would say they accomplished that nicely, and it doesn't matter how their van was fueled.

I dont agree with the earlier comments that were pretty harsh. These people accomplished nothing as its gone from the news quicksmart, you had to go to a Southern newspaper yesterday, its now gone. The diesel dos matter, are they green or not? They whinge about flying to climate change meetings and they do the same. Should have preached what they say and taken a train. There are ways to protest and try to make change, endangering people in a pure activist manner is not the way to go. This is why the Green Party is not popular as the great work down my many in that party is overruled by activism

Rikkitic

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#2362258 28-Nov-2019 11:40

I would never join a protest like this, though I did march against the Vietnam War and later Cruise missiles in Europe (and a few years ago, violence in Hastings). I'm not sure what this kind of action accomplishes, or if there are not better ways to do it. I don't know what motivates the protesters individually, since I have not had an opportunity to talk to them. My comments were not about the protest action, just the responses to that. I was struck by how similar they sounded to the pro-Chinese complainers about the protesters in Hong Kong (vandals, hooligans, troublemakers, damaging the economy, etc.). Dismissing someone as a radical, or over-privileged, or hypocritical, or whatever, is a tried and true tactic to undermine the point they are trying to make. It is confusing the message with the messenger.

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tdgeek

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#2362264 28-Nov-2019 11:55

Rikkitic:

I would never join a protest like this, though I did march against the Vietnam War and later Cruise missiles in Europe (and a few years ago, violence in Hastings). I'm not sure what this kind of action accomplishes, or if there are not better ways to do it. I don't know what motivates the protesters individually, since I have not had an opportunity to talk to them. My comments were not about the protest action, just the responses to that. I was struck by how similar they sounded to the pro-Chinese complainers about the protesters in Hong Kong (vandals, hooligans, troublemakers, damaging the economy, etc.). Dismissing someone as a radical, or over-privileged, or hypocritical, or whatever, is a tried and true tactic to undermine the point they are trying to make. It is confusing the message with the messenger.

I have no issue with any protests that are relevant. Climate Change is relevant. But chaining yourself to ships won't effect any changes. It reduces credibility of those protesters. Their point may be relevant, but the means isn't. Its up to the Government of the day to effect change, they IMHO need to be constructive not destructiv. IIRC the reduction in exploration isn't the right way to go based on comments in these threads in the past. We need gas, we are better to use more gas at the expense of diesel

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#2362275 28-Nov-2019 12:20

tdgeek:

The diesel dos matter, are they green or not? They whinge about flying to climate change meetings and they do the same. Should have preached what they say and taken a train. There are ways to protest and try to make change, endangering people in a pure activist manner is not the way to go. This is why the Green Party is not popular as the great work down my many in that party is overruled by activism.

I think you're stereotyping unfairly, and at a guess because you oppose the cause they're protesting about.

If you want to evangelise the conservative talking point, you should quote it verbatim from the right-wing think-tanks from whence it came, to be distributed to and then by the working classes - I think it's approximately: "The last thing I need is some celebrity flying around the planet in a learjet, to tell me I can't have real meat in my burger any more".

tdgeek

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#2362281 28-Nov-2019 12:32

Fred99:

tdgeek:

The diesel dos matter, are they green or not? They whinge about flying to climate change meetings and they do the same. Should have preached what they say and taken a train. There are ways to protest and try to make change, endangering people in a pure activist manner is not the way to go. This is why the Green Party is not popular as the great work down my many in that party is overruled by activism.

I think you're stereotyping unfairly, and at a guess because you oppose the cause they're protesting about.

If you want to evangelise the conservative talking point, you should quote it verbatim from the right-wing think-tanks from whence it came, to be distributed to and then by the working classes - I think it's approximately: "The last thing I need is some celebrity flying around the planet in a learjet, to tell me I can't have real meat in my burger any more".

No.

My point is solely that this type of activism wont get anything done, its dangerous to them and others. It won't get anything done. I'm all for any changes that will help climate change. I assume you took my comment on gas exploration meaning that I'm a hard right conservative. No. If the Green Party lost some of its activist mentality, they would probably get more done, and could work with more people, which would get even more done

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#2362284 28-Nov-2019 12:39

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

I'm comparing the responses of those triggered by it. And comments about sailing while leaving them tied to the masts, and other vengeance-based remarks. The purpose of protest is to focus attention on the thing being protested. I would say they accomplished that nicely, and it doesn't matter how their van was fueled.

I dont agree with the earlier comments that were pretty harsh. These people accomplished nothing as its gone from the news quicksmart, you had to go to a Southern newspaper yesterday, its now gone. The diesel dos matter, are they green or not? They whinge about flying to climate change meetings and they do the same. Should have preached what they say and taken a train. There are ways to protest and try to make change, endangering people in a pure activist manner is not the way to go. This is why the Green Party is not popular as the great work down my many in that party is overruled by activism

I think the only folk they were really endangering were themselves. I am not sure how fastening oneself to bits of a ship at anchor is placing others at risk unless the crew decided to set sail with them still there.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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