Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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tdgeek

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#1543526 28-Apr-2016 17:10

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SaltyNZ:

And also that he doesn't have to start a war himself, just insult someone else enough to make them start it.

Exactly. Checks and balances are fine, albeit diluted with a GOP based Senate. But his manner and words are far more deadly to international relations and responses than the Senate can control.

SJB

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#1543538 28-Apr-2016 17:43

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MikeSkyrme:

Irrespective of the messages he gives, he is still winning more votes than his competitors.

Only amongst registered Republicans AFAIK. That's a small proportion of the voters who turn out in a presidential election.

It's like saying JK is popular with 90% of voters registered with National. That would be a tiny proportion of all NZ voters.

The media tend to give a skewed view of just how popular overall these people are.

Elpie

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#1543543 28-Apr-2016 17:48

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MikeSkyrme:

I'm still trying to work out what the issue is with Trump potentially winning the Presidency....

According to the democratic process, it can only happen if most of the voters choose him.

Irrespective of the messages he gives, he is still winning more votes than his competitors.

Perhaps the people who dislike him so much should start looking at WHY he is gaining the votes, instead of simply calling him out FOR winning them.

This would be true IF the US used a democratic process to elect a president.

The US doesn't have an organisation like Elections NZ. Instead, every state decides how their part of the election will run. So, state government, local body government, state branches of political parties (and any other lobbying they decide to allow) hash out, at a state level, what they will do. Some states will hold primaries to decide which candidate to support, some hold caucuses. Some of the voting is open to all electors, some is open only to party faithful. The state decides everything - from which delegates it will allow to whom it will allow to vote, how votes will be cast, and how they will be counted. They even decide what will happen if there's irregularities. It's not democracy by any stretch of the imagination.

Then, when candidates have eventually been decided, voters from the general public don't vote for who becomes president. This is done by the 538 members of the Electoral College. Each state has a predetermined number of Electoral College members, based on population. So, the most populous state has the most votes. The people's votes are counted and whichever candidate gets the highest number of votes scores all the votes of the Electoral College members for that state. Except for Maine and Nebraska where they usually apportion votes. The candidate that wins at least 270/538 Electoral College votes wins the presidency.

This system is so totally skewed away from representative democracy it's ridiculous. With no spending limits and election campaign budgets that can go past a billion dollars it's also a system wide open for corruption. But don't tell any American that I said that 😉

tdgeek

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#1543555 28-Apr-2016 18:14

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Big chuckle. Talking about Tanzania Tan-Zay-Nia

Oh, good news people. Quote from Don, ISIS will be gone very very quickly under his presidency.

gzt

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#1543605 28-Apr-2016 20:21

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MikeSkyrme:
I'm still trying to work out what the issue is with Trump potentially winning the Presidency....

According to the democratic process, it can only happen if most of the voters choose him.

Irrespective of the messages he gives, he is still winning more votes than his competitors.

Perhaps the people who dislike him so much should start looking at WHY he is gaining the votes, instead of simply calling him out FOR winning them.

It is obvious that The United States of America is in a very bad way. That is the reason why. I didn't notice anybody here being anti Trump because he is winning. Lol. Trump is just not the solution to the USA's problems.

frankv

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#1543846 29-Apr-2016 09:22

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Elpie:

This would be true IF the US used a democratic process to elect a president.

The US doesn't have an organisation like Elections NZ. Instead, every state decides how their part of the election will run. So, state government, local body government, state branches of political parties (and any other lobbying they decide to allow) hash out, at a state level, what they will do. Some states will hold primaries to decide which candidate to support, some hold caucuses. Some of the voting is open to all electors, some is open only to party faithful. The state decides everything - from which delegates it will allow to whom it will allow to vote, how votes will be cast, and how they will be counted. They even decide what will happen if there's irregularities. It's not democracy by any stretch of the imagination.

Then, when candidates have eventually been decided, voters from the general public don't vote for who becomes president. This is done by the 538 members of the Electoral College. Each state has a predetermined number of Electoral College members, based on population. So, the most populous state has the most votes. The people's votes are counted and whichever candidate gets the highest number of votes scores all the votes of the Electoral College members for that state. Except for Maine and Nebraska where they usually apportion votes. The candidate that wins at least 270/538 Electoral College votes wins the presidency.

This system is so totally skewed away from representative democracy it's ridiculous. With no spending limits and election campaign budgets that can go past a billion dollars it's also a system wide open for corruption. But don't tell any American that I said that 😉

Well, yes, the USA is a federation of States, each of which is self-governing. Hence the variation in laws from one state to the next, and the ability of fugitives from justice to escape by crossing State boundaries. There are also federal issues like Defense and currency and foreign policy run from Washington DC. The rules around voting on federal issues (like the presidency) were designed in the days when it might take a month or more to collect all the delegates together to make a decision.

But I'd say the NZ system with Parties who select candidates and leaders (and therefore Prime Ministers and cabinets) and accept contributions from interested businesses or individuals is not much better.

Sideface

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#1546575 4-May-2016 12:54

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Donald Trump Wins Indiana in a Crushing Blow to Ted Cruz

NY Times

"Donald J. Trump became the presumptive Republican presidential nominee on Tuesday with a landslide win in Indiana that drove his principal opponent, Senator Ted Cruz, from the race and cleared the way for the polarizing, populist outsider to take control of the party."

OMG

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Batman

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#1546577 4-May-2016 13:00

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The Simpsons is at risk of being prophetic yet again.

Rikkitic

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#1546584 4-May-2016 13:10

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antichrist

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Sideface

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#1546586 4-May-2016 13:11

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joker97: The Simpsons is at risk of being prophetic yet again.

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SaltyNZ

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#1546591 4-May-2016 13:20

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Well folks, perhaps it's time to embrace the horror...

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Batman

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#1546603 4-May-2016 13:27

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This is going to be the dirtiest GE for the Americans ... The dirtiest (sic) person will be president.

DarthKermit

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#1546676 4-May-2016 14:51

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Trump vs. Clinton, it would seem.

Rikkitic

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#1546682 4-May-2016 15:08

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I will go out on a limb and make a prediction just to see how close I come: Drumph will not be the candidate. The Republican establishment will pull out all the stops to avoid that. They will remember Goldwater and recognise that Drumph won't stand a chance against either Democrat. They will do all the dirty back-room deals they can to avoid this. I can't say Kaisich will be the one, because he doesn't seem to have a lot of pulling power, but it won't be Drumph. He terrifies the GOP and his nomination would mean the effective end of it.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Batman

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#1546685 4-May-2016 15:22

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Rikkitic:
I will go out on a limb and make a prediction just to see how close I come: Drumph will not be the candidate. The Republican establishment will pull out all the stops to avoid that. They will remember Goldwater and recognise that Drumph won't stand a chance against either Democrat. They will do all the dirty back-room deals they can to avoid this. I can't say Kaisich will be the one, because he doesn't seem to have a lot of pulling power, but it won't be Drumph. He terrifies the GOP and his nomination would mean the effective end of it.

Republican strongmen to play dirty? That would send the guy who wins fair and square into amok.

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