They lost the war on drugs

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#1790374 27-May-2017 18:48

Wiggum:

But cannabis is a gateway drug to P.

Is it?

Just because use of cannabis is very common, so most (and probably close to all) methamphetamine users have smoked cannabis does not mean it's a "gateway" in terms of leading to "harder" drugs.

Alcohol is probably a gateway drug to methamphetamine - based on your definition.

Perhaps "gateway" in terms of someone wanting to "get high" there's no dope around because the cops burned it all, "but hey - the local gang-affiliated dealer has some P, can't be that bad - I'll give it a try". Even if that's rarely the case - it's a damned good argument to legalise cannabis immediately.

My only concern about legalising cannabis is that - like alcohol - it's probably unsafe with adolescents / developing minds - evidence points to that. However those inclined to use it, use it regardless of legal status (the fact that it's illegal probably even attracts some adolescents to use it).

I have seen quoted that use by adolescents in Colorado hasn't increased since legalisation.

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#1790378 27-May-2017 19:16

Fred99:

Peter Dunne speaks out - now supporting legalisation/regulation of cannabis.

Bravo - but I expect Bill E won't be in favour, it's not going to happen quickly, and Dunne may well not be Associate Health Minister after the election.

Its election year, nuff said

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#1790380 27-May-2017 19:18

Rikkitic:

I have a strong dislike of Peter Dunne and am inclined to view anything he says or does with skepticism, but I have to admit this sounds very positive. How much it has to do with the upcoming election I cannot say, but if something actually comes out of it I am prepared to give credit where due and to revise my opinion. Just unfortunate it took him so long to reach this point, but late is better than never, I suppose.

Everything I suspect. The sad thing, is that whatever anyones stance of this is, the election year bribes leave a sour taste. Maybe Dunne feels the need that he is failing and needs a positive push

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#1790382 27-May-2017 19:22

People with a need to control other people's lives are approximately three times more likely to believe that there must be a reason why doing something they enjoy must somehow be bad. It is similar to those suffering from a lack of joyfulness. Do we really want to give them yet another excuse to tell us what we are allowed to do?

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#1790383 27-May-2017 19:23

freitasm:

I have a cigar every couple of months. Next thing I might be hooked on whisky...

/joke but reality is alcohol and tobacco are drugs in their own right.

I believe that alcohol is the largest consumed drug? The demographic goes from 15yo binge drinkers to the elderly having a dram. You can also pick it up at Countdown when you grab Weetbix and milk.

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#1790385 27-May-2017 19:25

Wiggum:

freitasm:

I have a cigar every couple of months. Next thing I might be hooked on whisky...

/joke but reality is alcohol and tobacco are drugs in their own right.

Yes quiet right. But we all different and handle these things differently. 2 smokers for example with have a totally different experience when trying to quit. One may just go cold turkey, and the other may find it harder, and not be able to quit. This person may find it so hard that they even resorts to stealing to get the kick. It really comes down to that individual, We all so different. Same goes for alcohol, some people get addicted to it, others not so much. IMO I think its comes down to our own personalities, some of us are just more prone to getting addicted to something that others.

People with schizophrenia for example are approximately three times more likely to smoke tobacco than everyone else. Its similar for people suffering from bipolar disorder. Do we really want to give them the opportunity now to add a "gateway to P" drug to their lives?

I assume that the cannabis words from Dunne relate to medical? And not a branded supply at Countdown??

JimmyH

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#1790680 28-May-2017 16:34

Wiggum:

I tend to agree. But cannabis is a gateway drug to P.

That's a pretty dramatic claim to make. Do you have any evidence to back it up?

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#1790769 28-May-2017 18:56

JimmyH:

Wiggum:

I tend to agree. But cannabis is a gateway drug to P.

That's a pretty dramatic claim to make. Do you have any evidence to back it up?

Sorry should have added that thats just my opinion.

But I stick to that statement. First thing a crack head P smoker does when the P runs out is to use cannabis as a substitute. I have never heard of anybody that uses P but that does not use cannabis. Same goes for cannabis and smokers. They go hand in hand. Cigarettes are a gateway to cannabis. When the cannabis runs out, tobacco is a substitute for a while. I have never heard of anybody either than smokes cannabis but never touches tobacco. Therefore it is my assumption that the cigarettes got the person onto weed, and weed got the person eventually onto P. And not all people are equal here, some will be happy on just tobacco, or even weed. But certain people will always be looking for the new high. IMO.

The world will overall be a far better place without tobacco, cannabis, alcohol and P etc (especially for those who suffer from addictive tendencies), others would be fine if it was all legal.

plod

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#1790780 28-May-2017 19:07

Wiggum:
JimmyH:

Wiggum:

I tend to agree. But cannabis is a gateway drug to P.

That's a pretty dramatic claim to make. Do you have any evidence to back it up?

Sorry should have added that thats just my opinion.

But I stick to that statement. First thing a crack head P smoker does when the P runs out is to use cannabis as a substitute. I have never heard of anybody that uses P but that does not use cannabis. Same goes for cannabis and smokers. They go hand in hand. Cigarettes are a gateway to cannabis. When the cannabis runs out, tobacco is a substitute for a while. I have never heard of anybody either than smokes cannabis but never touches tobacco. Therefore it is my assumption that the cigarettes got the person onto weed, and weed got the person eventually onto P. And not all people are equal here, some will be happy on just tobacco, or even weed. But certain people will always be looking for the new high. IMO.

The world will overall be a far better place without tobacco, cannabis, alcohol and P etc (especially for those who suffer from addictive tendencies), others would be fine if it was all legal.

I know pot smokers that don't touch tobacco or P. also know P smokers that use pot or tobacco. And to be honest P and pot do two completely different things, so one is not an alternative for the other. not one of these drugs is a gateway to another.

Fred99

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#1790782 28-May-2017 19:11

Wiggum:

But I stick to that statement. First thing a crack head P smoker does when the P runs out is to use cannabis as a substitute.

I got that far, didn't bother to read any more, as you do not know what you're talking about.

Rikkitic

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#1790783 28-May-2017 19:14

Wiggum:

JimmyH:

Wiggum:

I tend to agree. But cannabis is a gateway drug to P.

That's a pretty dramatic claim to make. Do you have any evidence to back it up?

Sorry should have added that thats just my opinion.

But I stick to that statement. First thing a crack head P smoker does when the P runs out is to use cannabis as a substitute. I have never heard of anybody that uses P but that does not use cannabis. Same goes for cannabis and smokers. They go hand in hand. Cigarettes are a gateway to cannabis. When the cannabis runs out, tobacco is a substitute for a while. I have never heard of anybody either than smokes cannabis but never touches tobacco. Therefore it is my assumption that the cigarettes got the person onto weed, and weed got the person eventually onto P. And not all people are equal here, some will be happy on just tobacco, or even weed. But certain people will always be looking for the new high. IMO.

The world will overall be a far better place without tobacco, cannabis, alcohol and P etc (especially for those who suffer from addictive tendencies), others would be fine if it was all legal.

You believe what you believe. I smoked cannabis in the 60s, then grew out of it, even though I lived in Amsterdam. I smoked cigarettes for much longer, but eventually grew out of that as well. Did you know that many cannabis smokers eat McDonalds? That must mean that crappy American fries are gateway drugs. Who would have thought it?

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freitasm

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#1790800 28-May-2017 20:29

Wiggum:

Therefore it is my assumption that the cigarettes got the person onto weed, and weed got the person eventually onto P. And not all people are equal here, some will be happy on just tobacco, or even weed. But certain people will always be looking for the new high. IMO.

Ah, so not a scientific blind study, with controlled groups, etc.

JimmyH

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#1790803 28-May-2017 20:33

Wiggum:

But I stick to that statement. First thing a crack head P smoker does when the P runs out is to use cannabis as a substitute. I have never heard of anybody that uses P but that does not use cannabis. Same goes for cannabis and smokers. They go hand in hand. Cigarettes are a gateway to cannabis. When the cannabis runs out, tobacco is a substitute for a while. I have never heard of anybody either than smokes cannabis but never touches tobacco. Therefore it is my assumption that the cigarettes got the person onto weed, and weed got the person eventually onto P. And not all people are equal here, some will be happy on just tobacco, or even weed. But certain people will always be looking for the new high. IMO.

The world will overall be a far better place without tobacco, cannabis, alcohol and P etc (especially for those who suffer from addictive tendencies), others would be fine if it was all legal.

I don't think that chain of logic quite stacks up.

For the record, I don't smoke (tobacco, cannabis or P) and never have.

I have known a few smokers and ex-smokers of both tobacco and cannabis. Some smoked both, some smoked cannabis but never tobacco, and some smoked tobacco and never cannabis.

Notwithstanding the absence of facts, your chain of logic makes about as much sense as saying you have never met a cannabis smoker who doesn't sometimes eat toast for breakfast, therefore toast is a gateway to cannabis.

Or, as gets beaten into graduate policy analysts "Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc" - or, loosely, you can't infer a causal relationship from a sequential one or a correlation. Just because event Y followed event X, you can't just say that event Y must have been caused by event X, or that preventing event X would have prevented event Y.

dwilson

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#1790861 29-May-2017 05:50

Wiggum:

But I stick to that statement. First thing a crack head P smoker does when the P runs out is to use cannabis as a substitute. I have never heard of anybody that uses P but that does not use cannabis. Same goes for cannabis and smokers. They go hand in hand. Cigarettes are a gateway to cannabis. When the cannabis runs out, tobacco is a substitute for a while. I have never heard of anybody either than smokes cannabis but never touches tobacco. Therefore it is my assumption that the cigarettes got the person onto weed, and weed got the person eventually onto P. And not all people are equal here, some will be happy on just tobacco, or even weed. But certain people will always be looking for the new high. IMO.

I know dozens of people who smoke cannabis, P, tobacco and/or drink alcohol.

What you said is a load of codswallop.

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#1790900 29-May-2017 09:16

Wiggum:

JimmyH:

Wiggum:

I tend to agree. But cannabis is a gateway drug to P.

That's a pretty dramatic claim to make. Do you have any evidence to back it up?

Sorry should have added that thats just my opinion.

But I stick to that statement. First thing a crack head P smoker does when the P runs out is to use cannabis as a substitute. I have never heard of anybody that uses P but that does not use cannabis. Same goes for cannabis and smokers. They go hand in hand. Cigarettes are a gateway to cannabis. When the cannabis runs out, tobacco is a substitute for a while. I have never heard of anybody either than smokes cannabis but never touches tobacco. Therefore it is my assumption that the cigarettes got the person onto weed, and weed got the person eventually onto P. And not all people are equal here, some will be happy on just tobacco, or even weed. But certain people will always be looking for the new high. IMO.

The world will overall be a far better place without tobacco, cannabis, alcohol and P etc (especially for those who suffer from addictive tendencies), others would be fine if it was all legal.

100% fantasy, 0% fact.

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