Chris Hipkins, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3104159 14-Jul-2023 18:08

Technofreak:

The question has to be asked, What is gained by all of this? There's better ways to develop the Maori language for those that desire to use it.

Denial

You say its good, but make sure it doesnt affect me. I like that everyone are exposed to Maori more now the ever before. Mahi what the hell is that?? It means work. Im educated in a country that the white man took over.

Im educated, its not hard.

Maybe Canada could ban French? Makes it a lot easier....

tdgeek

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#3104160 14-Jul-2023 18:11

Rikkitic:

Learn a few new words mate. It won't kill you. People do it all the time.

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Sad state of affairs.

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#3104161 14-Jul-2023 18:26

tdgeek:

Not sure of your point.

Using Maori names has zero effect on our economy. It has a massive effect on our culture. Unless you are alt-right, aka ACT

Maori names are nt political, they are culture.

They become a political statement if a decision is made to use only the Maori names.

I have the same experience as others in that in some news items, I don't know what the actual Ministry in question actually is.

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#3104168 14-Jul-2023 19:09

GV27:

They become a political statement if a decision is made to use only the Maori names.

I have the same experience as others in that in some news items, I don't know what the actual Ministry in question actually is.

Its cultural not political. Unless you are ACT

White plunderers (and I am one) were here after our indigenous citizens. Australia, the aborigines (who also are in Canada) were there a LONG LONG time before them whites. Yet they have been treated with rabid disdain. But its cool to have indigenous insignia on sports uniforms. But its too hard to merge the original name with the English name? Like Australia, NZ has the majority of place names in the indigenous format. Ive not heard much on that through my life.

Auckland where I grew up is Tamariki Makaurau. Christchurch where I now live is Otautaki.

Not hard

GV27

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#3104173 14-Jul-2023 20:41

tdgeek:

Auckland where I grew up is Tamariki Makaurau. Christchurch where I now live is Otautaki.

Not hard

No, city and place names, fine. No issue. That is the thing they were called, after all. The fact someone else shows up 650 years later and calls it something else is irrelephant.

But state apparatus like ministries, and the state broadcaster exclusively referring to them solely in a language that nowhere near enough of the country is fluent in to specifically understand conversationally, let alone things like the names of ministries that aren't actually equivalents of their given English names? That's a political decision masquerading as an editorial one.

I'm not the sort of person who gets their undies in a bunch of someone says 'Kia Ora' to me on the phone when they answer, but I do get miffed when I'm listening to RNZ and a story comes on about a Ministry that gets referred to solely by a Te Reo name and I can't figure out what the actual ministry in question is.

Technofreak

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#3104179 14-Jul-2023 21:10

Rikkitic:

Technofreak:

The question has to be asked, What is gained by all of this? There's better ways to develop the Maori language for those that desire to use it.

Learn a few new words mate. It won't kill you. People do it all the time.

Don't worry, I have.

I think you missed my point. My learning a few Maori words will not further the Maori language one little bit. I'll never be able to hold a conversation in Te Reo.

Having solely Maori names for government agencies just creates confusion, as has been mentioned in other posts.

If you're going to use Maori names, use them alongside the English equivalent and use names that translate to the same meaning when translated either way. Use both names when referring to them in the media etc. Then we all might learn the something worthwhile.

As it is now it is virtue signalling from a government who has perfected the art. While it's not related to Maori language the dawn raids apology is a great example of this government's virtue signalling while actually not addressing the problem.

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#3104181 14-Jul-2023 21:17

GV27:

No, city and place names, fine. No issue. That is the thing they were called, after all. The fact someone else shows up 650 years later and calls it something else is irrelephant.

But state apparatus like ministries, and the state broadcaster exclusively referring to them solely in a language that nowhere near enough of the country is fluent in to specifically understand conversationally, let alone things like the names of ministries that aren't actually equivalents of their given English names? That's a political decision masquerading as an editorial one.

I'm not the sort of person who gets their undies in a bunch of someone says 'Kia Ora' to me on the phone when they answer, but I do get miffed when I'm listening to RNZ and a story comes on about a Ministry that gets referred to solely by a Te Reo name and I can't figure out what the actual ministry in question is.

No.

City and place names are fine as is Kia Ora as you are used to it. Often there are DUAL names, but if you are not used to them thats no good?

Its a cultural issue not political, unless you wish it to be, or if a party(s) decides we need to remove cultural references.

tdgeek

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#3104182 14-Jul-2023 21:19

Technofreak:

Don't worry, I have.

I think you missed my point. My learning a few Maori words will not further the Maori language one little bit. I'll never be able to hold a conversation in Te Reo.

Having solely Maori names for government agencies just creates confusion, as has been mentioned in other posts.

If you're going to use Maori names, use them alongside the English equivalent and use names that translate to the same meaning when translated either way. Use both names when referring to them in the media etc. Then we all might learn the something worthwhile.

As it is now it is virtue signalling from a government who has perfected the art. While it's not related to Maori language the dawn raids apology is a great example of this government's virtue signalling while actually not addressing the problem.

Understand your point/stance now...

Technofreak

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#3104230 14-Jul-2023 21:33

tdgeek:

GV27:

They become a political statement if a decision is made to use only the Maori names.

I have the same experience as others in that in some news items, I don't know what the actual Ministry in question actually is.

Its cultural not political. Unless you are ACT

White plunderers (and I am one) were here after our indigenous citizens. Australia, the aborigines (who also are in Canada) were there a LONG LONG time before them whites. Yet they have been treated with rabid disdain. But its cool to have indigenous insignia on sports uniforms. But its too hard to merge the original name with the English name? Like Australia, NZ has the majority of place names in the indigenous format. Ive not heard much on that through my life.

Auckland where I grew up is Tamariki Makaurau. Christchurch where I now live is Otautaki.

Not hard

Actually neither of those Maori place names come up if you do a search in New Zealand Gazetteer. https://gazetteer.linz.govt.nz/

They are not official place names. Why are they being used in place of the gazetted names? Name change by stealth? Certainly seems so. If you want to change the name of some place don't do it by slight of hand.

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gzt

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#3104237 14-Jul-2023 22:24

Those names have been used regularly by Maori celebrities and Maori media in general for over 30 years now and just became part of NZ lingo in general a lot of people grew up with on tv, and documented use before then of course. It doesn't bother me they are used interchangeably depending on the speaker.

Technofreak

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#3104245 14-Jul-2023 23:24

gzt: Those names have been used regularly by Maori celebrities and Maori media in general for over 30 years now and just became part of NZ lingo in general a lot of people grew up with on tv, and documented use before then of course. It doesn't bother me they are used interchangeably depending on the speaker.

Oh, really, I didn't realise that. Can you provide examples of regular use of these names going back that far?

I've only noticed the regular use over the past 3 or so years. I didn't think I've been hiding under a rock and missed the use of these names going back 30 years or more.

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#3104258 15-Jul-2023 07:49

Technofreak:

Actually neither of those Maori place names come up if you do a search in New Zealand Gazetteer. https://gazetteer.linz.govt.nz/

They are not official place names. Why are they being used in place of the gazetted names? Name change by stealth? Certainly seems so. If you want to change the name of some place don't do it by slight of hand.

Your example is not a name change. Or by stealth. Its just and merely a recognition and embracement of our culture. Nothing more and nothing less.

But it does beg another question. There is a place for a conservative and progressive government. But its all starting to sound like an old white man mentality, where the less well off, the other gender, and culture are disenfranchised. Trump all over again. Am I suggesting that Luxon and National are like Trump? No, but its stealthily easing that way, particularly if ACT have an outstanding result this election. At least past old while men governments in NZ were just that. I still cant get over the raucous applause when get rid of those other names exceeded talk of fixing education in a recent event. Its getting to be a bit U.S. like, which is disappointing.

GV27

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#3104312 15-Jul-2023 12:34

tdgeek:

No.

City and place names are fine as is Kia Ora as you are used to it. Often there are DUAL names, but if you are not used to them thats no good?

Its a cultural issue not political, unless you wish it to be, or if a party(s) decides we need to remove cultural references.

No.

I just want to understand which particular government department I'm funding through taxes is being mentioned by the radio station I am also funding through taxes.

The fact you insist it isn't a political issue is the exact reason it's becoming one. You can include more Maori Language in ways that do not exclude people who don't speak it.

I'm 100% happy with the Canadian approach, but to use Maori only is a political decision, which doesn't change just because you personally agree with it.

Rikkitic

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#3104361 15-Jul-2023 12:56

GV27:

No.

I just want to understand which particular government department I'm funding through taxes is being mentioned by the radio station I am also funding through taxes.

The fact you insist it isn't a political issue is the exact reason it's becoming one. You can include more Maori Language in ways that do not exclude people who don't speak it.

I'm 100% happy with the Canadian approach, but to use Maori only is a political decision, which doesn't change just because you personally agree with it.

I don't see why there could not be bilingual naming of government departments, at least for a transition period, but I also don't see why this issue generates so much passion. Fair enough if you don't like it so state your case and move on. There are bigger issues to get excited about here.

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tdgeek

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#3104363 15-Jul-2023 13:03

GV27:

No.

I just want to understand which particular government department I'm funding through taxes is being mentioned by the radio station I am also funding through taxes.

The fact you insist it isn't a political issue is the exact reason it's becoming one. You can include more Maori Language in ways that do not exclude people who don't speak it.

I'm 100% happy with the Canadian approach, but to use Maori only is a political decision, which doesn't change just because you personally agree with it.

Maori only?? Talk to the radio station who apparently are embracing the culture.

Its becoming a political issue as

Labour moved forward with it, so therefore its bad
We will fix education being raucously drowned out by lets get rid of dual Maori names

If Labour was going to change street signs to another colour, same deal applies, for the same reasons. Its oppositional. Nothing to do with the topic

EDIT

The America's Cup was here in 2021, thats a while ago. The word Auckland hardly ever got mentioned in the TV coverage, in favour of Tamaki Makaurau. I dont recall an issue with that. Or since. Not aware of any complaining about Maori alternate names for anything. Until 90 days from an election.

"You can include more Maori Language in ways that do not exclude people who don't speak it."

Its not about making/forcing/asking people to speak Maori. Its about recognising we are a dual culture country. Well some of us feel that way

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