Maori Seats

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#1825705 20-Jul-2017 09:40

Rikkitic:

Why all the resentment of Maori privilege? It isn't hurting you in any meaningful way and as frankv tried to point out, most Maori aren't exactly living the high life. What is your actual problem with this? Just a point of principle? Surely there are bigger issues to worry about in this country.

No resentment. Just pointing out that the Maori seats are causing an unproportional representation in parliament. Thats undemocratic don't think?

Bigger issues will never be solved by handing our more privileges etc. You cant fix previous discrimination by creating more discrimination, you fix it by getting rid of all discrimination.

MikeB4

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#1825726 20-Jul-2017 09:56

New Zealand has circa 3,155,794 registered voters on election day each and every one of the voters will have the same number of votes, One electorate and one Party vote.

Rikkitic

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#1825737 20-Jul-2017 10:22

Wiggum:

No resentment. Just pointing out that the Maori seats are causing an unproportional representation in parliament. Thats undemocratic don't think?

Bigger issues will never be solved by handing our more privileges etc. You cant fix previous discrimination by creating more discrimination, you fix it by getting rid of all discrimination.

I get what you are saying but I just don't see it that way. I think things like intergenerational poverty, institutional discrimination, inequality of opportunity, dead-end jobs, are more urgent than a few extra MPs in Parliament.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Wiggum

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#1825739 20-Jul-2017 10:26

MikeB4:

New Zealand has circa 3,155,794 registered voters on election day each and every one of the voters will have the same number of votes, One electorate and one Party vote.

Thats true, at the ballot box. Not in parliament where the Maori seats, combined with MMP, cause an unproportional representation. A vote in the Maori electorates has more value.

Wiggum

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#1825740 20-Jul-2017 10:27

Rikkitic:

I get what you are saying but I just don't see it that way. I think things like intergenerational poverty, institutional discrimination, inequality of opportunity, dead-end jobs, are more urgent than a few extra MPs in Parliament.

And your fix for all of that is to create more discrimination.

Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff again.

MikeB4

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#1825745 20-Jul-2017 10:36

Wiggum:
MikeB4:

New Zealand has circa 3,155,794 registered voters on election day each and every one of the voters will have the same number of votes, One electorate and one Party vote.

Thats true, at the ballot box. Not in parliament where the Maori seats, combined with MMP, cause an unproportional representation. A vote in the Maori electorates has more value.

However the Maori Party only have one of the seven Maori electorates, Labour hold the other six.

Wiggum

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#1825747 20-Jul-2017 10:40

MikeB4:

However the Maori Party only have one of the seven Maori electorates, Labour hold the other six.

Which makes it even worse for an unproportional representation don't you think?

Labour has 6 seats which they never earned at the ballot box.

Our system really is skewed.

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MikeB4

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#1825751 20-Jul-2017 10:47

Wiggum:
MikeB4:

However the Maori Party only have one of the seven Maori electorates, Labour hold the other six.

Which makes it even worse for an unproportional representation don't you think?

Labour has 6 seats which they never earned at the ballot box.

So you inferring that Maori don't think about their vote they just tick a box.

frankv

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#1825753 20-Jul-2017 10:48

Wiggum:

frankv:

Yep, they're leading the life of Reilly, aren't they? All driving round in luxury cars, with baches at Pauanui and ski lodges and annual holidays to Europe. So spoiled! Sad!

Most Pakeha don't even have those benefits so not sure of your point.

My point is that most Maori don't either. So labelling "Maori" as spoilt is unfair. We should focus on the people who actually *are* spoilt and attack them rather than Maori.

Most of the rest of the world would struggle with a regime that does not champion proper democracy, and which grants special political rights to certain groups in our society only. These special rights to Maori only come at the expense of the majority of New Zealanders. Unproportional representation in parliament is not democratic at all. We far from being a democratic nation. Abolishing the undemocratic seats is a good start.

There is no disproportional representation. There are about the same number of Maori roll voters in each Maori electorate as there are general roll voters in each general roll electorate. The Maori electorates are reviewed every 5 years to maintain that. What's more, given that Parliamentary seats are allocated proportionally based on the Party vote, there would be no significant change to Parliament's makeup if the Maori seats were abolished.

Wiggum

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#1825754 20-Jul-2017 10:49

MikeB4:
Wiggum:

MikeB4:

However the Maori Party only have one of the seven Maori electorates, Labour hold the other six.

Which makes it even worse for an unproportional representation don't you think?

Labour has 6 seats which they never earned at the ballot box.

So you inferring that Maori don't think about their vote they just tick a box.

Which box did they tick?

old3eyes

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#1825759 20-Jul-2017 10:55

MikeB4:
Wiggum:

MikeB4:

However the Maori Party only have one of the seven Maori electorates, Labour hold the other six.

Which makes it even worse for an unproportional representation don't you think?

Labour has 6 seats which they never earned at the ballot box.

So you inferring that Maori don't think about their vote they just tick a box.

They did in the FPP days. Labor could was always guarantee the Maori seats and become the government by that fact. I"m sure if these seats were not there the layout of parliament back in those days would have been quite different.

Regards,

Old3eyes

Wiggum

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#1825764 20-Jul-2017 11:00

frankv:

There is no disproportional representation. There are about the same number of Maori roll voters in each Maori electorate as there are general roll voters in each general roll electorate. The Maori electorates are reviewed every 5 years to maintain that. What's more, given that Parliamentary seats are allocated proportionally based on the Party vote, there would be no significant change to Parliament's makeup if the Maori seats were abolished.

Disproportional representation has already been discussed. its proven already.