So it begins...

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#1956404 13-Feb-2018 15:53

Labour's revolving leadership fiasco over the last 8 years or so was hardly pattern. So there's no reason for National to do the same thing. If they have learnt anything from that (and I think they are astute enough to have) then they won't go down the same track.

They pulled off the last leadership switch pretty smoothly, and I think Bill will try and do the same again.

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#1956410 13-Feb-2018 16:03

I feel that while Judith Collins was cleared of wrongdoing, many peoples perception of her is that she isn't entirely ethical or isn't trustworthy. I'd expect that to play against her during debates. Paula Bennett, I don't have a specific issue with her, but I was surprised when she was named Deputy. For that reason, I am not sure how she would go as leader.

I feel that BE should have delayed standing down, and had a meeting and suggested perhaps that a few candidates started preparing themselves for a leadership role, up-skilling themselves and then presented themselves in 6 months time, picked a replacement and stepped down.

Bridges is probably my pick. Coleman, the perception he is responsible for the healthcare black marks, but I am not certain that is fair. I'd need more information around that.

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#1956413 13-Feb-2018 16:12

networkn:

I feel that while Judith Collins was cleared of wrongdoing, many peoples perception of her is that she isn't entirely ethical or isn't trustworthy. I'd expect that to play against her during debates. Paula Bennett, I don't have a specific issue with her, but I was surprised when she was named Deputy. For that reason, I am not sure how she would go as leader.

I feel that BE should have delayed standing down, and had a meeting and suggested perhaps that a few candidates started preparing themselves for a leadership role, up-skilling themselves and then presented themselves in 6 months time, picked a replacement and stepped down.

Bridges is probably my pick. Coleman, the perception he is responsible for the healthcare black marks, but I am not certain that is fair. I'd need more information around that.

I feel that there were leadership challenges afoot and Bill English did the numbers and realised that he did not have the backing to remain and bowed out with honour.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

rjt123

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#1956424 13-Feb-2018 16:15

MikeB4:
I feel that there were leadership challenges afoot and Bill English did the numbers and realised that he did not have the backing to remain and bowed out with honour.

I don't know, my feeling was that the party would have let him for as long as he wanted to stay, but the media wanted blood and it's hard to fight against that. That's my theory anyways...

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#1956428 13-Feb-2018 16:17

rjt123:
MikeB4:

I feel that there were leadership challenges afoot and Bill English did the numbers and realised that he did not have the backing to remain and bowed out with honour.

I don't know, my feeling was that the party would have let him for as long as he wanted to stay, but the media wanted blood and it's hard to fight against that. That's my theory anyways...

I think it's a combination. He knew it was somewhat unlikely to make it through to the next election. I think he would have had support from the party to remain for a while, but decided to jump before he was pushed.

I agree that the press pretty much made it hard to stay with reporting constantly he was going. I also think he is probably right, that with some reflection over xmas he realized there are other things in life.

rjt123

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#1956430 13-Feb-2018 16:18

networkn:
I feel that while Judith Collins was cleared of wrongdoing, many peoples perception of her is that she isn't entirely ethical or isn't trustworthy. I'd expect that to play against her during debates. Paula Bennett, I don't have a specific issue with her, but I was surprised when she was named Deputy. For that reason, I am not sure how she would go as leader.

I feel that BE should have delayed standing down, and had a meeting and suggested perhaps that a few candidates started preparing themselves for a leadership role, up-skilling themselves and then presented themselves in 6 months time, picked a replacement and stepped down.

Bridges is probably my pick. Coleman, the perception he is responsible for the healthcare black marks, but I am not certain that is fair. I'd need more information around that.

I'd go with that too, Judith's baggage would give the media too many opportunities to dig at her. Otherwise she could actually be pretty good.

Alternatively, Nikki Kaye could be good. And she has the reputation of knocking JA out of her electorate...

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networkn

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#1956439 13-Feb-2018 16:36

I see Winston is up to his usual classless antics. Thank God his tenure must be nearly over. Thanks Jacinda for leaving him in charge for at least 6 weeks.

6FIEND

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#1956446 13-Feb-2018 16:42

rjt123:
networkn:

I feel that while Judith Collins was cleared of wrongdoing, many peoples perception of her is that she isn't entirely ethical or isn't trustworthy. I'd expect that to play against her during debates. Paula Bennett, I don't have a specific issue with her, but I was surprised when she was named Deputy. For that reason, I am not sure how she would go as leader.

I feel that BE should have delayed standing down, and had a meeting and suggested perhaps that a few candidates started preparing themselves for a leadership role, up-skilling themselves and then presented themselves in 6 months time, picked a replacement and stepped down.

Bridges is probably my pick. Coleman, the perception he is responsible for the healthcare black marks, but I am not certain that is fair. I'd need more information around that.

I'd go with that too, Judith's baggage would give the media too many opportunities to dig at her. Otherwise she could actually be pretty good.

Alternatively, Nikki Kaye could be good. And she has the reputation of knocking JA out of her electorate...

Minor point - JA never had an electorate to be knocked out of.

In my opinion, it would be a mistake for National to appoint a new leader simply because they are "young" or "female" or any other for any other "identity politics" reasons. Sure, the nation has become accustomed to seeing Bridges and Ardern go head-to-head on TV as relatively junior members of caucus, but that doesn't necessarily make it a smart decision to put a comparatively inexperienced MP forward to "match" Ardern.

What National need to find is a leader who is not going to shy away from holding the young, pregnant PM to account when it's warranted. Someone who isn't going to be dismissed as a "sexist old white man" whenever they probe for weakness in the Coalition's actions. But at the same time, someone who can convincingly paint a picture of a meaningfully different and viable alternative.

It's not going to be an easy choice.

rjt123

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#1956447 13-Feb-2018 16:44

No love lost between the two. BE could obviously see thru him from a long time ago.

(Re: the posts from earlier about career politicians - case in point, Winnie's been in parliament for most of his life and he's still no use.)

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#1956448 13-Feb-2018 16:45

National have planned for this and I am sure the transition will be smooth. Wouldnt be surprised if they already have 3 preferred candidates already given the nod. The process is usually smooth with National. This is just part of preparing for the next election and rejuvenation. Good on them and good on Bill. He has served a great term with little flaws, but I guess he believes it is time. Arise Sir Bill.

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#1956449 13-Feb-2018 16:51

6FIEND:

Minor point - JA never had an electorate to be knocked out of.

In my opinion, it would be a mistake for National to appoint a new leader simply because they are "young" or "female" or any other for any other "identity politics" reasons. Sure, the nation has become accustomed to seeing Bridges and Ardern go head-to-head on TV as relatively junior members of caucus, but that doesn't necessarily make it a smart decision to put a comparatively inexperienced MP forward to "match" Ardern.

What National need to find is a leader who is not going to shy away from holding the young, pregnant PM to account when it's warranted. Someone who isn't going to be dismissed as a "sexist old white man" whenever they probe for weakness in the Coalition's actions. But at the same time, someone who can convincingly paint a picture of a meaningfully different and viable alternative.

It's not going to be an easy choice.

Nicely put. I agree. Bring an older white guy is almost seen as a sin now. It's really poor.

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MikeAqua

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#1956473 13-Feb-2018 17:14

It's always perceived badly when a male polictician criticises a female. The reverse is widely accepted.

for example in the Clark vs Key debates, she got stuck into him, but he never attacked her directly. Key didn't even look at Clark very often, she just stared down the camera and stuck to policy.

National needs a female in a prominent senior position to go after Ardern (verbally). That means either a female leader or a vocal deputy leader and two hand the leadership a bit more. Judith Collins would be very good at (verbal) attack. Pair her up with Bridges in a good-cop bad-cop act.

Mike

gulfa

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#1956480 13-Feb-2018 17:29

Nicely put. I agree. Bring an older white guy is almost seen as a sin now. It's really poor.

I suppose you can back up this ridiculous statement with evidence What a heap of crap some of the comments being made in these forums

I wish Bill English and his family well after his long period (27 yrs) of service to NZ I feel in the last period of time he was becoming more of a socialist Perhaps that comes with age I may not have agreed with all his political decisions.

Some of the younger generation and commentators on this forum should take note. If it wasn't for the consumers, city council workers, rubbish collectors etc we would all be in the crap What would happen if they all decided not to work for low end wages and refuse to take Govt supplement for rentals etc We would see business offering a decent wage and property owners reducing rentals to get these people back At the moment these supplements are really a handout to the well off. We all need to share the wealth of the country

Charter Schools I just thought I would mention these as well to get some of you going. If charter schools are allowed to have classes of 15 or less why cant we do this in state schools. Then watch the results and achievements of pupils

Finally I have had my final say in this forum Congratulations to those who have made sensible contributions and kept personality out of the discussion To those who cant and go on about their great achievements as you get older you hopefully become wiser????

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#1956483 13-Feb-2018 17:37

gulfa:

Finally I have had my final say in this forum Congratulations to those who have made sensible contributions and kept personality out of the discussion To those who cant and go on about their great achievements as you get older you hopefully become wiser????

I wish you well, but I won't miss your contributions. It seems more than a little ironic in your leaving statement you talk about leaving personal stuff out of a discussion, when a number of your posts have been both personal and insulting.

networkn

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#1956490 13-Feb-2018 18:07

MikeAqua:

It's always perceived badly when a male polictician criticises a female. The reverse is widely accepted.

for example in the Clark vs Key debates, she got stuck into him, but he never attacked her directly. Key didn't even look at Clark very often, she just stared down the camera and stuck to policy.

National needs a female in a prominent senior position to go after Ardern (verbally). That means either a female leader or a vocal deputy leader and two hand the leadership a bit more. Judith Collins would be very good at (verbal) attack. Pair her up with Bridges in a good-cop bad-cop act.

Well, you can't win. She can't be attacked because she is a young female, then not because she is pregnant, can't be attacked because she just gave birth, the let offs are amazing. It was a master stroke of planning.

By attacked, I mean constructively.

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