Elon Musk, the man

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#3327129 2-Jan-2025 20:09

Ah federal tax! You do know the difference right??

Remember that wealth and income are not the same thing, being rich on paper does not mean you always owe federal income taxes.

quickymart

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#3327131 2-Jan-2025 20:33

Don't know, don't care. He's not paying tax (or enough tax) as far as I'm concerned.

kotuku4

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#3327133 2-Jan-2025 20:39

We have to remember the golden rule.

You know, the golden rule.

Those who have the gold make the rules.

kingdragonfly

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#3327143 2-Jan-2025 21:39

Trump and Musk talk about MAGA: "Make American Great Again."

Republicans are well known for "dog whistles", something that sounds innocent to most people, but has a different meaning for racists.

MAGA is when white men American ruled in the 1950's, liked their wives "barefoot and pregnant" as my American father frequently said in front of my mother.

The USA was riding a high because after World War II no American factories were destroyed, while much of the northern world was devastated.

Because my father served less than a month in WWII, my father was given a free college education.

For all Americans, banks were heavily regulated and had to pay 3% saving interest. But for GI's like my father, he paid

$27,000 down (at adjusted 2024 dollars. on less expensive home, no deposit needed)
no Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI), because the loans were backed by the government
given a 30 year term at 6% fixed

For my father, two years wages equaled the price of a high quality house, 4 bed, 3.5 bath, 0.5 hectare, floor 350 sq meters.

Adjusting for inflation, my father purchased a home costing $270,000 that is now valued at $1.2 million. Again both figures adjusted for inflation.

My father would regularly call African Americans the "n" bomb and would call elderly black men "boy" to their face. That's MAGA.

Today the top 1% are much less taxed than in 1950, but MAGA fights every tax increase like a prisoner begging his life on death row prison.

Today in the US the highest income tax rate is 25%. In 1950 it topped out at 91%, and no one complained.

Of course none of these extraordinary benefits were called socialism. They were after all, the greatest generation ever, and
exclusively entitled to it.

freitasm

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#3327146 2-Jan-2025 22:47

Wombat1:
Tinkerisk:

The richest man in the world and pays zero taxes. Doesn't that already say everything about him and his goals?

Not sure where you're getting that from? Can you back it up?

I'm pretty sure Musk or Bezos are paying more tax than anybody else on the planet. Musk alone dropped $11 billion in 2021, sounds more to me like he's funding the government’s budget!

I'm sure he pays less tax in percentage of income that anyone here.

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freitasm

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#3327147 2-Jan-2025 22:50

Wombat1:
Ah federal tax! You do know the difference right??

Remember that wealth and income are not the same thing, being rich on paper does not mean you always owe federal income taxes.

It always surprises me how people seem to be against taxing billionaires, when anything done against that level of income would not affect 99.9% of the population.

For all I care billionaires should pay the same brackets for income. And for fringe benefits. And for capital gain.

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Wombat1

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#3327158 2-Jan-2025 23:19

freitasm:

I'm sure he pays less tax in percentage of income that anyone here.

Business owners can pay less tax by using strategies like keeping stock to pay lower taxes on profits, getting paid in stock options instead of salary, and taking out loans against their stock to avoid paying taxes. They also set up their companies to reduce taxes by claiming deductions and using government tax benefits. I know business owners that do this in both NZ, and Aus. Maybe not ethical, but perfectly legal.

Saying that, his capital gains tax probably is a crazy amount.

freitasm:

It always surprises me how people seem to be against taxing billionaires, when anything done against that level of income would not affect 99.9% of the population.

For all I care billionaires should pay the same brackets for income. And for fringe benefits. And for capital gain.

I take the opposite view, you should be rewarded for doing well. If the US for instance changed its stance on Elons tax he would probably just leave the country and go somewhere else. At the end of the day the US will be financially worse off without him, even if he paid 0 in tax.

quickymart

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#3327160 2-Jan-2025 23:23

Wombat1:

I take the opposite view, you should be rewarded for doing well. If the US for instance changed its stance on Elons tax he would probably just leave the country and go somewhere else. At the end of the day the US will be financially worse off without him, even if he paid 0 in tax.

And yet - as an example - I'm sure he still drives his Tesla on the same road as all other road users, which is paid for by...taxes. So, yes, he should be paying more than he does, regardless of how well (or poorly) his businesses are doing.

freitasm

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#3327161 2-Jan-2025 23:26

Because we all know how trickle down (doesn't) work.

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deepred

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#3327162 2-Jan-2025 23:35

Wombat1:

freitasm:

It always surprises me how people seem to be against taxing billionaires, when anything done against that level of income would not affect 99.9% of the population.

For all I care billionaires should pay the same brackets for income. And for fringe benefits. And for capital gain.

I take the opposite view, you should be rewarded for doing well. If the US for instance changed its stance on Elons tax he would probably just leave the country and go somewhere else. At the end of the day the US will be financially worse off without him, even if he paid 0 in tax.

Hence the global minimum corporate tax and clampdowns on tax havens.

We only have to look at the effective purchasing of America's political system by dark money, as a cautionary tale for democratic backsliding.

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

Tinkerisk

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#3327163 2-Jan-2025 23:36

quickymart:

Wombat1:

I take the opposite view, you should be rewarded for doing well. If the US for instance changed its stance on Elons tax he would probably just leave the country and go somewhere else. At the end of the day the US will be financially worse off without him, even if he paid 0 in tax.

And yet - as an example - I'm sure he still drives his Tesla on the same road as all other road users, which is paid for by...taxes. So, yes, he should be paying more than he does, regardless of how well (or poorly) his businesses are doing.

Especially in view of the fact that he insults the Americans who will soon (have to) pay him as a ‘consultant’ as stupid and lazy, it would be up to him to campaign for better education and not complain about having to use foreign labour in his tech companies. The guy doesn't understand the social principle that ownership is an obligation and not an invitation to shamelessly exploit loopholes. Only the nouveau riche behave like this (shamelessly anti-social).

Qui nihil scit, omnia credere debet.
Firewalls do NOT stop dragons.
In effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is.

freitasm

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#3327164 2-Jan-2025 23:40

Or the fact he rather get rid of American workers and bring legal H1B visa holders from India. These people will then be dependent on the job to stay there, therefore not in a position of negotiating better pay.

To me it shows he will not necessarily bring betterment for the country he is in.

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deepred

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#3327165 2-Jan-2025 23:40

Meanwhile, this image has been doing the social media rounds in the past 24 hours, with the same basic caption, "the start of 2025 summed up"...

freitasm

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#3327166 2-Jan-2025 23:41

Yes. President Elon and First Lady Donna will have a bad year. The love story won't last long.

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Wombat1

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#3327167 2-Jan-2025 23:47

quickymart:

Wombat1:

I take the opposite view, you should be rewarded for doing well. If the US for instance changed its stance on Elons tax he would probably just leave the country and go somewhere else. At the end of the day the US will be financially worse off without him, even if he paid 0 in tax.

And yet - as an example - I'm sure he still drives his Tesla on the same road as all other road users, which is paid for by...taxes. So, yes, he should be paying more than he does, regardless of how well (or poorly) his businesses are doing.

Sure he drives his Tesla on the same roads as the rest of us, but let’s not forget his companies create jobs and pay taxes too. Over 100 000 jobs or something like that!

Taxing the rich sounds like a quick fix, but it usually leads to fewer jobs and a slower economy, kind of like trying to fix a leaky bucket by poking more holes in it. Maybe we should focus on making the tax system work better for all instead of just raising taxes on the rich. And while we at it how about we fix the government wasteful spending so that everyone’s tax dollars actually go further?

I hate tax and want to pay as little as possible. If I saw less wasteful spending manybe I would change my stance.

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