Elon Musk, the man

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Ultimate Geek
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#3327169 3-Jan-2025 00:00

kotuku4: We have to remember the golden rule.

You know, the golden rule.

Those who have the gold make the rules.

Original source:

Wizard of Id Print: Whoever Has The Gold Makes The Rules - John Hart ...

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

quickymart

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#3327170 3-Jan-2025 00:02

Wombat1:

Sure he drives his Tesla on the same roads as the rest of us, but let’s not forget his companies create jobs and pay taxes too. Over 100 000 jobs or something like that!

Taxing the rich sounds like a quick fix, but it usually leads to fewer jobs and a slower economy, kind of like trying to fix a leaky bucket by poking more holes in it. Maybe we should focus on making the tax system work better for all instead of just raising taxes on the rich. And while we at it how about we fix the government wasteful spending so that everyone’s tax dollars actually go further?

I hate tax and want to pay as little as possible. If I saw less wasteful spending manybe I would change my stance.

"Wasteful spending" is hugely subjective, IMO. I could (poorly) argue that spending anything on hospitals - for example - is "wasteful" as I personally never get sick and never need to go to one. But I also acknowledge and understand that other people get sick and do need to use their services. Therefore, I am happy to pay taxes towards things like this as it is helping the rest of the population.

Your argument that "he makes lots of jobs therefore he shouldn't pay taxes" is a weak one, as with this logic, large companies (who also create lots of jobs - overlooking the fact that Elon recently fired a huge portion of Twitter's employees) shouldn't pay taxes either? Come on.

I don't think anyone likes paying taxes per se, but we all have to for services and utilities that we all utilise. "Death and taxes" are the two guaranteed things in life - but taxes exist for a reason. And yes, I don't care whether Elon employs 100,000 people or 10,000,000 - he needs to pay more tax than he does, end of story.

Tinkerisk

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#3327171 3-Jan-2025 00:19

Wombat1:

I hate tax and want to pay as little as possible. If I saw less wasteful spending manybe I would change my stance.

Ah, that brings us closer to the point. But you expect good roads, good healthcare, good social services, good infrastructure, good education, an undisturbed life in peace (yes, yes) ... these things are being driven up against the wall because more and more people only see themselves. Of course you can pay for everything out of your own private pocket to get this and disconnect from the social system. But it would be easy if everyone swallowed the toad and made their contribution. And politicians would be more responsible with what doesn't belong to them. Everyone can only lose, as the British are currently painfully realising (as are more and more other countries).

Qui nihil scit, omnia credere debet.
Firewalls do NOT stop dragons.
In effect we have everything to hide from someone, and no idea who someone is.

freitasm

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#3327172 3-Jan-2025 00:21

All true but let's go back to Elon Musk.

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deepred

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#3327173 3-Jan-2025 01:08

Wombat1:

Sure he drives his Tesla on the same roads as the rest of us, but let’s not forget his companies create jobs and pay taxes too. Over 100 000 jobs or something like that!

Taxing the rich sounds like a quick fix, but it usually leads to fewer jobs and a slower economy, kind of like trying to fix a leaky bucket by poking more holes in it. Maybe we should focus on making the tax system work better for all instead of just raising taxes on the rich. And while we at it how about we fix the government wasteful spending so that everyone’s tax dollars actually go further?

I hate tax and want to pay as little as possible. If I saw less wasteful spending manybe I would change my stance.

Here are a few pointers for you...

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Libertarian_paradise

quickymart

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#3327182 3-Jan-2025 07:43

The clash between Musk and MAGA (M&M?) continues: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-h1b-visa-steve-bannon-b2672621.html

I wonder what Trump will do now, past saying he simply agrees with Musk?

Also: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/02/elon-musk-tommy-robinson-release-angers-labour-mps

He sure likes to stick his nose into stuff involving the far-right crowd, doesn't he? Problem Musk has is there is only a limited audience for this sort of material.

kingdragonfly

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#3327187 3-Jan-2025 09:20

A month ago, Marjorie Taylor Greene said she's work with Musk's new government efficiency panel. Let the cat fight begin.

Wombat1

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#3327200 3-Jan-2025 10:16

quickymart:

"Wasteful spending" is hugely subjective, IMO. I could (poorly) argue that spending anything on hospitals - for example - is "wasteful" as I personally never get sick and never need to go to one. But I also acknowledge and understand that other people get sick and do need to use their services. Therefore, I am happy to pay taxes towards things like this as it is helping the rest of the population.

Thats not wasteful, Im talking about real wasteful, examples from the US under Biden include payments to deceased individuals, Unemployment and social security payments to ineligible recipients, student loan forgiveness during COVID19, the list just goes on and on. The Festivus Report 2024 identifies over $1 trillion in government waste. Thats taxpayer money, and we want to give these clowns more?

Wombat1

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#3327201 3-Jan-2025 10:17

quickymart:Your argument that "he makes lots of jobs therefore he shouldn't pay taxes" is a weak one, as with this logic, large companies (who also create lots of jobs - overlooking the fact that Elon recently fired a huge portion of Twitter's employees) shouldn't pay taxes either? Come on.

I made no such argument, my argument is that he is paying taxes and proof of that is also in the report link you shared previously. He does pay tax, hence I dropped into this discussion to fix that unfound claim.

quickymart: I don't care whether Elon employs 100,000 people or 10,000,000 - he needs to pay more tax than he does, end of story.

Thats your view. Musk paid a staggering $11 billion in federal taxes in 2021, imagine that amount of $$$ coming into the NZ economy?

freitasm

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#3327203 3-Jan-2025 10:21

Wombat1:

quickymart:

"Wasteful spending" is hugely subjective, IMO. I could (poorly) argue that spending anything on hospitals - for example - is "wasteful" as I personally never get sick and never need to go to one. But I also acknowledge and understand that other people get sick and do need to use their services. Therefore, I am happy to pay taxes towards things like this as it is helping the rest of the population.

Thats not wasteful, Im talking about real wasteful, examples from the US under Biden include payments to deceased individuals, Unemployment and social security payments to ineligible recipients, student loan forgiveness during COVID19, the list just goes on and on. The Festivus Report 2024 identifies over $1 trillion in government waste. Thats taxpayer money, and we want to give these clowns more?

I'd bet this is not a Biden problem only and probably been happening to every other government, over the years.

Or do you think their systems are an example of software engineering and they keep 100% tabs on births and deaths?

I think your argument is not based on evidence but on partisan lines.

Your suggestion is to not tax billionaires because a couple of poor people might get money?

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Wombat1

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#3327206 3-Jan-2025 10:29

freitasm:

I'd bet this is not a Biden problem only and probably been happening to every other government, over the years.

Or do you think their systems are an example of software engineering and they keep 100% tabs on births and deaths?

I think your argument is not based on evidence but on partisan lines.

Your suggestion is to not tax billionaires because a couple of poor people might get money?

Quiet right it is probably all governments, including ours, National or Labour just as bad as each other too I bet when it comes to bad spending.

I just have a hard time batting for "more tax" when I see so much wastage. $1 trillion in government waste is evidence of very bad government spending don't you think?

Where did I say billionaires should not be taxed?

freitasm

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#3327208 3-Jan-2025 10:38

Wombat1:

Where did I say billionaires should not be taxed?

I think these two replies indicate that:

This

Wombat1:

freitasm:

It always surprises me how people seem to be against taxing billionaires, when anything done against that level of income would not affect 99.9% of the population.

For all I care billionaires should pay the same brackets for income. And for fringe benefits. And for capital gain.

I take the opposite view, you should be rewarded for doing well. If the US for instance changed its stance on Elons tax he would probably just leave the country and go somewhere else. At the end of the day the US will be financially worse off without him, even if he paid 0 in tax.

And this

Wombat1:

Taxing the rich sounds like a quick fix, but it usually leads to fewer jobs and a slower economy, kind of like trying to fix a leaky bucket by poking more holes in it. Maybe we should focus on making the tax system work better for all instead of just raising taxes on the rich.

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Wombat1

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#3327211 3-Jan-2025 10:44

I see your point, can we just agree then that musk does pay tax. Thats really why I entered this thread.

Billionairs should pay tax like everybody else, and if they dont then the system should be fixed. I totally disagree with taxing them more than anybody else, they should pay the same ratio of tax as everybody else.

quickymart

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#3327212 3-Jan-2025 11:00

Wombat1:

I see your point, can we just agree then that musk does pay tax. Thats really why I entered this thread.

Billionairs should pay tax like everybody else, and if they dont then the system should be fixed. I totally disagree with taxing them more than anybody else, they should pay the same ratio of tax as everybody else.

Fine, but what about when he doesn't even pay that much? What then? "Oh he employs people, so let's just let him go"?

Or do you think instead that Trump would dare to do something to change the tax system so Musk gets taxed more? Not when it's going to disadvantage his new billionaire BFF, that's for sure.

huckster

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#3327213 3-Jan-2025 11:05

Wombat1:

Thats your view. Musk paid a staggering $11 billion in federal taxes in 2021, imagine that amount of $$$ coming into the NZ economy?

And the 11bn comes from him spending $142.6 million to purchase some of his Tesla share options which were about to expire. They were worth $23.6 billion, in 2021 giving him $23.5 billion in in taxable income. The federal rate in 2021 was about 41%.

Pretty sweet deal I would say.

Also tax is a % thing, not an amount thing. So you earn big bucks, you pay big bucks.

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