NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3147057 13-Oct-2023 08:01

mattwnz:

What did he say? What gets me is that he doesn't answer questions, and just tries to spin things around and around, and many National voters don't seem to like him. He is a poor mans version of John Key imo, and seem to totally lack personality, which you need as a PM, and is detached from your average working person, so he can't relate. At least he hasn't mentioned that he was a CEO for a while.

He started badly months ago. Coming out with ideas that were stupid, that were rolled back, "misinterpreted". Since then he has been schooled up by his PR team. Debate wise he's been good. Loud, continually butts in, looking solid. But as you say he never answers anything, the PR spin kicks in each and every time. What irks me is his childishness. He butts in a lot, and when Hipkins does, its the standard "calm down" PR team has done a great job, but its patently clear that his spin does have a job, the public are still waiting and waiting for answers. He has none. Shockingly he fell apart last night, Hipkins came back at him using facts and numbers and he was lost for words. Stuck. This election has been a slam dunk for a long time. Now he cannot form a Govt, in fact this weeks poll has him 54-57 seats down. Given how Labour is to blame for everything, Luxon and Wills have failed. Spin only goes so far before its seen through. Shane Reti would be creaming this as he is solid, straight and credible. NZ First isnt gaining, Luxon and Willis and Seymour are losing.

tdgeek

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#3147058 13-Oct-2023 08:03

Rikkitic:

He made a crack about Hipkins' covid diagnosis being the only positive thing to come out of the government. It was cheap, low class, inappropriate, not clever, and revealing of his utter lack of character. What I really want to say would get me banned so I will just leave it at that.

Wow, never heard that.

sen8or

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#3147060 13-Oct-2023 08:03

Rikkitic:

He made a crack about Hipkins' covid diagnosis being the only positive thing to come out of the government. It was cheap, low class, inappropriate, not clever, and revealing of his utter lack of character. What I really want to say would get me banned so I will just leave it at that.

I missed that, but to be fair it would have made me chuckle (I also chuckled at some of Hipkins cheap shots too).

I completely understand the criticism of Luxon during a debate, he danced around questions far too much and kept relying on wordy policy slogans / statements to not answer a question. It was the first debate I have had a chance to watch, if I was one of the undecideds, I doubt it would have swung me one way or the other. I go back to an earlier point somewhere up the pages, if I was interviewing both of them for a job and I had to pick one, I really don't know who I would hire, neither of them are good options

Rikkitic

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#3147063 13-Oct-2023 08:15

sen8or:

I missed that, but to be fair it would have made me chuckle (I also chuckled at some of Hipkins cheap shots too).

Sorry, but I don't think it's funny to joke about a disease that has killed seven million people.

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#3147064 13-Oct-2023 08:23

sen8or:

…if I was interviewing both of them for a job and I had to pick one, I really don't know who I would hire, neither of them are good options

For the first time in my adult life I’m not voting. It’s a strange feeling but I say looking at the ballot paper tonight and couldn’t find a strong reason to vote for any of the parties. Admittedly some of it may be my disconnection from New Zealand but I’ve been a classical swing voter the last few elections (I voted for different parties in the last 3 elections.) I’m on a plane tomorrow morning so that’s that.

Admittedly I didn’t vote in my electorate last time but that was because

a) I don’t live there and the people who do should decide who represents them and
b) the only name I knew was Judith Collins and that was a big NFW.

Handle9

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#3147065 13-Oct-2023 08:24

Rikkitic:
sen8or:

I missed that, but to be fair it would have made me chuckle (I also chuckled at some of Hipkins cheap shots too).

Sorry, but I don't think it's funny to joke about a disease that has killed seven million people.

It’s not funny to make jokes about beating someone with a bed leg either, yet here we are.

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#3147066 13-Oct-2023 08:30

Handle9: It’s not funny to make jokes about beating someone with a bed leg either, yet here we are.

I didn't see the debate myself, but from the reports, he wasn't joking about it. Luxon tried to push him on his MPs being rubbish because five of them were forced to resign; Hipkins replied that he had high standards for his ministers and they fell short; Luxon pushed once again; Hipkins finally replied that at least none of his MPs had beat anyone with a bed leg.

And it's a completely valid point. Luxon made it a valid point. Hipkins equally could have gone for the conspiracy theorist that Simon Bridges described as ****ing useless, or the one who wrote a 'do-you-know-who-I-am' on parliamentary letterhead in response to her son being prosecuted for animal cruelty.

It's a debate. Only an idiot would confidently march into a densely packed minefield blindfolded like that.

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Rikkitic

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#3147067 13-Oct-2023 08:35

For those who weren't aware of Luxon's descent into the cesspit, here is a link. Apparently he thought he was being terribly clever and used variations of this several times. This is just one example.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3147094 13-Oct-2023 09:08

sen8or:

Rikkitic:

He made a crack about Hipkins' covid diagnosis being the only positive thing to come out of the government. It was cheap, low class, inappropriate, not clever, and revealing of his utter lack of character. What I really want to say would get me banned so I will just leave it at that.

I missed that, but to be fair it would have made me chuckle (I also chuckled at some of Hipkins cheap shots too).

I completely understand the criticism of Luxon during a debate, he danced around questions far too much and kept relying on wordy policy slogans / statements to not answer a question. It was the first debate I have had a chance to watch, if I was one of the undecideds, I doubt it would have swung me one way or the other. I go back to an earlier point somewhere up the pages, if I was interviewing both of them for a job and I had to pick one, I really don't know who I would hire, neither of them are good options

I voted for the party that had (to me) the least objectionable "red line" policy (they ALL have them)

Not interested in the "bribes" each party is offering, I find this kind of thing revolting as it is no longer about policy, its about who can buy the most votes.

And apart from keeping the nut job minor parties out of any actual power, there is no good options.

SJB

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#3147097 13-Oct-2023 09:21

In this election, if voting was mandatory and there was a box on the ballot paper for 'None of the above', the 'None of the above' party would win by a landslide.

invisibleman18

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#3147123 13-Oct-2023 10:39

Been very undecided and considering not voting for the first time. I'm usually aligned to one particular party and the vote compass survey has me very close to them this time, but there's been enough of their ideas this time that I haven't been sure if I wanted to put my name to a vote. However, I'm worried enough about the likely coalition partners on the other side getting in that I'm going to bite the bullet and do it. It's more a vote for "not the others" this time I feel.

evilengineer

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#3147125 13-Oct-2023 10:45

SaltyNZ:

Handle9: It’s not funny to make jokes about beating someone with a bed leg either, yet here we are.

I didn't see the debate myself, but from the reports, he wasn't joking about it. Luxon tried to push him on his MPs being rubbish because five of them were forced to resign; Hipkins replied that he had high standards for his ministers and they fell short; Luxon pushed once again; Hipkins finally replied that at least none of his MPs had beat anyone with a bed leg.

And it's a completely valid point. Luxon made it a valid point. Hipkins equally could have gone for the conspiracy theorist that Simon Bridges described as ****ing useless, or the one who wrote a 'do-you-know-who-I-am' on parliamentary letterhead in response to her son being prosecuted for animal cruelty.

It's a debate. Only an idiot would confidently march into a densely packed minefield blindfolded like that.

No. Definitely wasn't a joke.

BTW, you forgot to mention Van De Molen being censured for bullying.

Also worth pointing out that joking about beating someone with a bed leg still isn't as bad as actually beating someone with a bed leg.

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#3147327 13-Oct-2023 21:51

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133102655/political-party-behind-conspiracy-theories-puts-member-into-scrutineer-position

Should this be concerning? A scrutineer doesn't count the votes, right?

Handle9

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#3147329 13-Oct-2023 22:11

quickymart:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/133102655/political-party-behind-conspiracy-theories-puts-member-into-scrutineer-position

Should this be concerning? A scrutineer doesn't count the votes, right?

A scrutineer witnesses the process. That’s the total involvement

Kyanar

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#3147342 13-Oct-2023 23:57

Handle9: Admittedly I didn’t vote in my electorate last time but that was because

a) I don’t live there and the people who do should decide who represents them and

As a New Zealander, they still represent you on the world stage. New Zealand still has obligations to you, such as if (and I'm not suggesting it will!) things turn to custard in the country you are in, helping you and your family return to safety.

That may be a little more nuanced if you're a dual citizen - as an Australian New Zealander my sole interest in New Zealand politics is doing the right thing by people who have no other choice - but if you're merely a resident in the foreign country you live in, you should still retain an interest in New Zealand having a government for the people, since you're still one of them.

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