Ukraine War discussion

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Ultimate Geek
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#2902539 15-Apr-2022 00:54

I won't be surprised if putin twists this into the excuse he needs. "Due to the existential threat that Ukraine presents to the Russian Fleet, and continued western interference in Ukraine. I have authorised a small nuke strike on a key military target to prevent further harm to russian ships."

tdgeek

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#2902546 15-Apr-2022 06:20

cruxis:

I won't be surprised if putin twists this into the excuse he needs. "Due to the existential threat that Ukraine presents to the Russian Fleet, and continued western interference in Ukraine. I have authorised a small nuke strike on a key military target to prevent further harm to russian ships."

His MO is do what he likes, make excuses, i.e. false flags, and go ahead. If he chose a small nuke or chemicals, I assume that would be the end game for the West keeping out. The ultimate excuse for the West to go in. Critics would see that as a World War move, but its already a world war. It just happens that right now, the trigger pullers in Ukraine, are Ukrainians. In any other respects, many other countries are actively participating in this war.

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#2902550 15-Apr-2022 07:15

"On April 14, 2022, using two combat helicopters equipped with heavy offensive weapons, military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine illegally entered the airspace of the Russian Federation. Moving at low altitude, they carried out at least 6 air strikes on residential buildings in the village of Klimovo, Klimovsky district, Bryansk region," the statement said.

Pot calling the Kettle Black

Scotdownunder

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#2902570 15-Apr-2022 09:04

tdgeek:

[ If he chose a small nuke or chemicals, I assume that would be the end game for the West keeping out.

The West’s response should be to sink the rest of the Black Sea fleet. This can be done with stand-off weapons so little risk to western personnel and it unlocks the Black Sea for blockaded grain shipment to the world. The latter should be done under UN mandate with protection from non-Nato countries. A serious escalation but not nuclear.

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#2902571 15-Apr-2022 09:16

The NY Times - Russia’s flagship sinks

breaking

The flagship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet sunk on Thursday after it suffered catastrophic damage.

Ukraine said it was the result of a missile strike by its coastal defense force; Russia claimed that the damage to the ship, the Moskva, was caused by a fire.

Later, Russia claimed it had sunk while being towed during a storm.*

The damage to the Moskva was a potent symbolic victory for the Ukrainian military and an embarrassment for Moscow.

It may also be a demonstration of new weapons: Ukraine said it struck the vessel with Ukrainian-made Neptune missiles, which have never before been used in combat.

Note that the Russians confirm the sinking.

EDIT

* There was no storm, according to weather records.

see: R-360 Neptune: a cruise missile which burnt Moskva

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ezbee

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#2902582 15-Apr-2022 10:34

Acccording to Leonid Nevzlin -- One time Oligarch
Shoigu is out of the game. Possibly disabled for life, if he lives. He has a massive heart attack and is in urgent care hooked up to machines. There are rumors heart attack was not due to natural causes
20 Generals have been arrested. Since 2014 they have stolen 10 billion US dollars that were given for preparation of Putin's blitzkrieg (turning people in Ukraine to be Pro Russian as well as army spending)
Akadiy Dvorkovich is expected to give evidence against his colleagues and friends in FSB. If not he will be transfered to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrosskaya_Tishina
or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lefortovo_Prison

Surkov is under house arrest. Same reason as the 20 generals.

Source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Nevzlin

The new Stalin ....
'Death of Stalin' is a great tragic comedy, it would be fitting for TVNZ to have a special showing.

Putin arrests closest ally who 'made him President'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGbLbEXa0SI

Putin ‘purges’ 150 FSB agents in response to Russia’s botched war with Ukraine
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putin-purges-150-fsb-agents-in-response-to-russias-botched-war-with-ukraine-lf9k6tn6g#Echobox=1649702327-1

""
All of those ousted were employees of the Fifth Service, a division set up in 1998, when Putin was director of the FSB to carry out operations in the countries of the former Soviet Union with the aim of keeping them within Russia’s orbit.
""
The service’s former chief, Sergei Beseda, 68, has been sent to Lefortovo prison in Moscow after he was placed under house arrest last month. The prison was used by the NKVD, the KGB’s predecessor, for interrogation and torture during Stalin’s Great Purge of the 1930s.
""

Apparently Vladislav Surkov a mentor to Putin at one point has fallen out of favour if twitter rumours of his arrest are true.
You can see he is a lovely person here...
Vladislav Surkov: ‘An overdose of freedom is lethal to a state’
https://www.ft.com/content/1324acbb-f475-47ab-a914-4a96a9d14bac

""
“There are two options,” says Vladislav Surkov as we settle into our seats. “The first is Anglo-Saxon. I give you the menu, you can choose what you want. The second option is Russian. There is no choice. The chef chooses for you, because he knows better what you want.” Surkov smiles. “I suggest the Russian option.”
""

freitasm

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#2902598 15-Apr-2022 11:54

Ironic that the corruption Putin's fomented over the years is his undoing.

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Gurezaemon

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#2902607 15-Apr-2022 12:28

Sideface:

The NY Times - Russia’s flagship sinks

breaking

The flagship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet sunk on Thursday after it suffered catastrophic damage.

Ukraine said it was the result of a missile strike by its coastal defense force; Russia claimed that the damage to the ship, the Moskva, was caused by a fire.

Later, Russia claimed it had sunk while being towed during a storm.

The damage to the Moskva was a potent symbolic victory for the Ukrainian military and an embarrassment for Moscow.

It may also be a demonstration of new weapons: Ukraine said it struck the vessel with Ukrainian-made Neptune missiles, which have never before been used in combat.

Note that the Russians confirm the sinking.

From Reddit: It's only a special diving operation

Get your business seen overseas - Nexus Translations

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#2902609 15-Apr-2022 12:40

The NY Times - Missile? Fire? Either way, a stricken ship speaks to Russian incompetence, a Western official says.

today

A senior Western official on Thursday could not confirm that the Russian Black Sea flagship had been hit by a Ukrainian missile, as the Ukrainians say, or was badly damaged in an accidental fire, as the Russians say.

But the official said that either version displayed significant Russian incompetence.

Given the importance of the cruiser, the Moskva, it is almost impossible to believe that a fire would be allowed to reach the ammunition magazine without extraordinary failures on the part of the crew, the official said.

And if it were a Ukrainian cruise missile that hit the ship, as seems credible, that displays almost more incompetence and carelessness, given that the Moskva was equipped with a sophisticated, three-layer defense against a missile strike.

However it happened, so much damage to such an important ship is a deep embarrassment to the Russian Navy and will do much to boost Ukrainian morale as a bigger fight looms in the Donbas.

It will also make it harder for Russia to resupply its forces from the sea or to provide artillery cover for them, the official said.

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Rikkitic

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#2902621 15-Apr-2022 13:36

Sideface:

The NY Times - Missile? Fire? Either way, a stricken ship speaks to Russian incompetence, a Western official says.

I guess if I was an 18 year-old draftee who just wants to be home browsing porn, I wouldn't exactly rush towards a burning pile of high explosive either!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

kingdragonfly

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#2902724 15-Apr-2022 15:59

Like a child with shiny toys, Trump always has always been eager to use the nuclear bombs

The Hill: Trump joins Biden in calling Russia’s war on Ukraine ‘genocide’

Former President Trump joined President Biden in calling Russia’s war in Ukraine a “genocide” during an interview with Fox News on Wednesday night.

While Trump was slamming Biden for policies he said have led to record high inflation, he said, “And now add to that what’s going on in Ukraine. That’s a genocide.”

The comment comes a day after Biden accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of genocide on Tuesday.

...Trump elaborated on his comments later in the interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity, saying, “This is a genocide that’s taking place.”

“We have the strongest, most capable nuclear anywhere in the world because of what I did,” Trump said, reiterating his claim that Putin would not have invaded were he in office.

Trump said the U.S. has a more powerful nuclear arsenal than Russia and that “people shouldn’t be pushing us around.”

“I think in 100 years people are going to look back and they are going to say, ‘How did we stand back and NATO stand back?'” Trump said.
...

gzt

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#2902734 15-Apr-2022 17:42

Two Republicans visit Kyiv and Bucha. Steve Daines of Montana and Victoria Spartz of Indiana. The first visit by USA politicians since the war began:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/two-gop-lawmakers-become-first-us-officials-visit-ukraine-russias-inva-rcna24504

tdgeek

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#2902736 15-Apr-2022 17:57

gzt: Two Republicans visit Kyiv and Bucha. Steve Daines of Montana and Victoria Spartz of Indiana. The first visit by USA politicians since the war began:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/two-gop-lawmakers-become-first-us-officials-visit-ukraine-russias-inva-rcna24504

In other words just a stunt?

neb

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#2902739 15-Apr-2022 18:43

tdgeek:
gzt: Two Republicans visit Kyiv and Bucha. Steve Daines of Montana and Victoria Spartz of Indiana. The first visit by USA politicians since the war began:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/two-gop-lawmakers-become-first-us-officials-visit-ukraine-russias-inva-rcna24504

In other words just a stunt?

Spartz was Viktoriya Kul'heyko before she married, she has a legitimate reason to be involved. The other one is your typical Retrumplican, he definitely went as a stunt.

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#2902745 15-Apr-2022 18:49

The Guardian - The Ukrainian F*** Yourself Stamp

15 April 2022

In somewhat ironic timing, the sinking of Russian warship Moskva in the Black Sea comes [2] days after Ukraine issued a stamp immortalising the famous exchange on Snake Island between Russian and Ukrainian forces.

Ukraine’s postal service announced on Tuesday it had issued a postage stamp showing a Ukrainian soldier standing defiant in the foreground of a Russian warship.

Roman Hrybov - the Ukrainian soldier who uttered the phrase “Russian warship, go f*** yourself” - was invited to the ceremony unveiling the stamp ...

Postal stamps showing a Ukrainian service member and the Russian warship Moskva.

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