Elon Musk, the man

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Forums › Politics › Elon Musk, the man

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#3327214 3-Jan-2025 11:07

quickymart:

Wombat1:

I see your point, can we just agree then that musk does pay tax. Thats really why I entered this thread.

Billionairs should pay tax like everybody else, and if they dont then the system should be fixed. I totally disagree with taxing them more than anybody else, they should pay the same ratio of tax as everybody else.

Fine, but what about when he doesn't even pay that much? What then? "Oh he employs people, so let's just let him go"?

The problem is what I mentioned earlier, most business owners do the same thing, they don't earn a "salary", they have smart accountants that find loopholes. Musk and others are not breaking the law, so not sure what you implying by "letting him go". How are you going to possibly fix that? Make it too hard, and he will just take his $$$ and business somewhere else.

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#3327215 3-Jan-2025 11:10

Wombat1:

Musk and others are not breaking the law, so not sure what you implying by "letting him go".

By not changing the law to close these loopholes, the legislature is "letting him (and others) go."

How are you going to possibly fix that? Make it too hard, and he will just take his $$$ and business somewhere else.

Change the law to treat everyone equally, close the loopholes and ensure tax treaties apply to everyone.

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#3327216 3-Jan-2025 11:12

huckster:

Also tax is a % thing, not an amount thing. So you earn big bucks, you pay big bucks.

Thats true if he was taking a "salary", but what if the business is earning? Do you propose more taxing business earnings? What if the business is losing money? I know many business owners that are running businesses at a loss, but business owners are living big, driving fancy "business" vehicles, living in fancy houses "business premises" this is not just a Musk problem, its all around us.

huckster

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#3327217 3-Jan-2025 11:19

Wombat1:

huckster:

Also tax is a % thing, not an amount thing. So you earn big bucks, you pay big bucks.

Thats true if he was taking a "salary", but what if the business is earning? Do you propose more taxing business earnings? What if the business is losing money? I know many business owners that are running businesses at a loss, but business owners are living big, driving fancy "business" vehicles, living in fancy houses "business premises" this is not just a Musk problem, its all around us.

That was his income not Tesla's hence the tax bill. I wasn't talking about business taxation.

Wombat1

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#3327218 3-Jan-2025 11:21

huckster:

That was his income not Tesla's hence the tax bill. I wasn't talking about business taxation.

What is his "income" then, he does not receive a traditional salary from Tesla.

See the problem?

huckster

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#3327219 3-Jan-2025 11:33

Wombat1:

huckster:

That was his income not Tesla's hence the tax bill. I wasn't talking about business taxation.

What is his "income" then, he does not receive a traditional salary from Tesla.

See the problem?

No. I don't. You keep citing this 11bn as a fantastical thing. This share option was part of his remuneration. If he didn't exercise his right to them, he'd have paid no tax but would have lost the 14bn or so he did get.

Wombat1

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#3327245 3-Jan-2025 12:32

Im not really sure what you getting at? The U.S. already taxes share options when they are exercised, and potentially again when the shares are sold at profit.

Bung

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#3327246 3-Jan-2025 12:33

In 2021 the Federal tax take was $4 trillion that still didn’t meet expenditure. Elon Musk gains or loses smaller sums like $11 billion just by saying soming stupid on X.

Tinkerisk

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#3327247 3-Jan-2025 12:37

Wombat1:

Make it too hard, and he will just take his $$$ and business somewhere else.

And that's exactly what every ‘politician’ is afraid of.

And that is precisely the reason why trillionaires are a real threat to democracy. A few who own almost everything (and more and more) and thus gain political influence that can no longer be controlled. Democratic institutions are being eroded. (see Panama Papers). The richest 1% of the world's population now owns almost as much as the remaining 99%. The influence that this 1% has is far greater than the 1% and this threatens the democratic principle that one man (no matter how rich or poor) has only one vote. Moreover, Musk has provocatively shown us how you can ‘buy’ a vote with 1 million US$, not just as a harmless marketing gimmick.

edit: I'm curious to see how ‘the mob’ will loot the US in the next 4 years and what will happen there (I'm afraid it won't be good, but that's just conjecture). In the meantime, though, this conflagration continues worldwide ... not just in the US. A super-rich person can never be a democrat, this would be completely against the interests that make/have made him rich. In the past, the communists were seen as the enemy (McCarthy) and now it is the Democrats. For them, social justice is a threat to their wealth.

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#3327333 3-Jan-2025 18:46

Tinkerisk:
Wombat1:

Make it too hard, and he will just take his $$$ and business somewhere else.

And that's exactly what every ‘politician’ is afraid of.

And that is precisely the reason why trillionaires are a real threat to democracy. A few who own almost everything (and more and more) and thus gain political influence that can no longer be controlled. Democratic institutions are being eroded. (see Panama Papers). The richest 1% of the world's population now owns almost as much as the remaining 99%. The influence that this 1% has is far greater than the 1% and this threatens the democratic principle that one man (no matter how rich or poor) has only one vote. Moreover, Musk has provocatively shown us how you can ‘buy’ a vote with 1 million US$, not just as a harmless marketing gimmick.

edit: I'm curious to see how ‘the mob’ will loot the US in the next 4 years and what will happen there (I'm afraid it won't be good, but that's just conjecture). In the meantime, though, this conflagration continues worldwide ... not just in the US. A super-rich person can never be a democrat, this would be completely against the interests that make/have made him rich. In the past, the communists were seen as the enemy (McCarthy) and now it is the Democrats. For them, social justice is a threat to their wealth.

People such as Musk are a key subject of this Kim Hill podcast with Belgian economist Ingrid Robeyns from last month.

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

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#3327343 3-Jan-2025 19:32

...The right right [such as Steve Bannon and Laura Loomer] is like "no, you need to hire Americans"

and the tech right [such as Elon Musk and Peter Thiel] is like "but you [American] guys are retarded"

and the right right is like "well you [tech giants] don't train us [Americans]"

and the tech right is like "you can't out-train [Americans] being retarded"
...

Elon Musk: "That pretty much sums it up. This was eye-opening."

quickymart

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#3327344 3-Jan-2025 19:34

kingdragonfly:

Elon Musk: "That pretty much sums it up. This was eye-opening."

I thought he was a bit more worldly than to not see that some people are quite racist? Or am I missing his point here?

Moahunter

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#3327442 4-Jan-2025 15:27

President-elect Musk is now multi-tasking. First making America great again and next changing the UK government. Is there nothing the mad genius can't do?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jan/02/elon-musk-tommy-robinson-release-angers-labour-mps

freitasm

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#3327443 4-Jan-2025 15:33

President Musk and First Lady Donna.

And Musk showing his support of the German AFD too.

Can't be more fascist than a billionaire fascist.

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ezbee

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#3327444 4-Jan-2025 15:38

Not sure why anyone expects Gods to be nice.
Most cultures had tales of gods that were deceitful, vengeful, through to smitey, and demanding blood sacrifices, the more the merrier.
Wiping whole cities and civilizations from the earth and such.

Empathy seemed to be lacking, and often self serving.

Even on TV we were told...
Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" typically opened with a voiceover that spoke about the time when the gods were cruel

So yup Elon is well on the way to Godhood.

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