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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections
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networkn
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  #1641680 28-Sep-2016 11:26
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cynnicallemon:

 

Quite an interesting article here, from The Charlotte Observer. Interesting in the fact that North Carolina is one of the swing states and currently dealing with their own police shooting problem. NC could well be the pivot which everyone looks to in deciding which way to vote if not already decided.

 

 

 

 

I read some of it, but I couldn't finish it. Makes no sense to me. They are saying Hillary's economic policies aren't new. She didn't convince them, but then Trump said he would cut taxes, but turns out, only for some people, and a lot of people, and I suspect a number of those are in this very region, will face higher taxes. 

 

Hillary wasn't fantastic, she needs to relax a LOT, but boy oh boy, hard to imagine Trump improving anything based on what he SAID.

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  #1641681 28-Sep-2016 11:28
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networkn:

 

Rikkitic:

 

What people need to realise about this campaign is that neither candidate will win. Rather, one will lose.

 

 

 

 

Nice soundbite ....

 

 

tweetalicious

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  #1641692 28-Sep-2016 11:47
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Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

Rikkitic:

 

What people need to realise about this campaign is that neither candidate will win. Rather, one will lose.

 

 

Nice soundbite ....

 

 

tweetalicious

 

 

The Don says: “My Twitter has become so powerful that I can actually make my enemies tell the truth.”




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  #1641718 28-Sep-2016 12:02
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Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

So if Trump goes down that track, no problem, he has every right, and if that serves his country better, then no problem

 

 

 

 

Yup.  It'll be great for middle/working class citizens to have the price hiked for basically everything they buy because of Trump's punitive tariffs, then lose their jobs because the rest of the world either applied punitive tariffs in retaliation, or just couldn't afford to buy made in USA products any more. 

 

 

I have no issue with trade wars, although that term is a bit over the top IMO. However, if he intends to break existing agreements, thats not on.

 

Should he be over exuberant with tariffs, then yes, the World at large will break agreements and increase tariffs to the US, thus they would need to make more and more goods to avoid that, but that will still cost them more as they cant match other countries lower costs. 

 

 

 

 

I do have an issue with trade wars - if history is a lesson then they cause or exacerbate economic depression killing millions and can start real wars killing even more millions.

 

US has used economic sanctions against its enemies - Trump threatening to use them against nations like China - where relations can be a little strained anyway, or Mexico - where the US has done pretty well from exploiting a source of cheap labour and "tame" politics doesn't bode well IMO.

 

I'm no great fan of US foreign policy as it's been, but Trump working hard to make things much worse is a very very bad idea for the entire world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aside from agreements that they break, any country can manage its trade how they see fit, the world will adapt. In his case, adapt away from the US, the world will band together to a degree to pick up the slack. The US will then fade into a trade cold war, where it is the main loser. They can make their own stuff/food and pay handsomely for what they import. New trade partners will be created or expanded.

 

Make America Great?   Beginning of the end

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  #1641726 28-Sep-2016 12:10
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Fred99:

 

Clinton was also very strongly condemning the concept of "trickle-down" economics, repeatedly stating that it hasn't worked.  That's also left wing by NZ standards.  Many here still believe it works.

 

 

Really??? I think the only people continuing to espouse trickle-down are the would-be tricklers... supposed tricklees know the reality after the last 30 years.

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  #1641727 28-Sep-2016 12:12
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networkn:

 

The TPPA *IS* dead. Neither of the primary candidates will pass it in it's current state. 

 

 

I suspect that it's just a bargaining position... what would big business give up in exchange for TPPA?

 

 

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  #1641729 28-Sep-2016 12:15
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frankv:

 

networkn:

 

The TPPA *IS* dead. Neither of the primary candidates will pass it in it's current state. 

 

 

I suspect that it's just a bargaining position... what would big business give up in exchange for TPPA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean by that ? Neither Candidate supports the TPP, it's dead. They will start again after the elections, from pretty much a scratch position. Expect that if Trump gets in, he will be expecting a LOT more from NZ if we want to trade with the USA. 

 

 

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  #1641730 28-Sep-2016 12:18
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Ignoring the candadiates, its really Republicans vs Democrats  If both parties had satisfactory leaders, who should win and why?

 

If some feel the Republicans are the better option, is it not better to be in with Trump than out?

networkn
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  #1641731 28-Sep-2016 12:20
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tdgeek:

 

Ignoring the candadiates, its really Republicans vs Democrats  If both parties had satisfactory leaders, who should win and why?

 

If some feel the Republicans are the better option, is it not better to be in with Trump than out?

 

 

 

 

The despicable way the Republicans have behaved in the past 16 years, with Bush in Power, then in blocking everything Obama, makes me DEEPLY concerned about a republican led US Government.

 

I am traditionally business support leaning, but for me, Democrats would get my vote despite their more socialist and less economic focus. 

 

 

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  #1641735 28-Sep-2016 12:29
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networkn:

 

frankv:

 

networkn:

 

The TPPA *IS* dead. Neither of the primary candidates will pass it in it's current state. 

 

 

I suspect that it's just a bargaining position... what would big business give up in exchange for TPPA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean by that ? Neither Candidate supports the TPP, it's dead. They will start again after the elections, from pretty much a scratch position. Expect that if Trump gets in, he will be expecting a LOT more from NZ if we want to trade with the USA. 

 

 

 

 

Yep, we have no bargaining power. Small potatoes. Maybe that cuts us some slack, but if he goes down the aggressive bargain hunting trade deals, we need to start shifting the percentage of US exports and imports elsewhere where we can. Even if we end up with the same bad deal with the US. Go elsewhere. Clearly China is the best place to look at. Large and growing in demand. Same for other countries.

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  #1641737 28-Sep-2016 12:31
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networkn:

 

Having said that, if he is LEGALLY used methods in law to avoid paying taxes, then you can't penalize him for that, you can only criticise the law-makers.

 

 

Well, the legal system can't penalize him. But there's no compulsion to avoid tax, and many (most?) people believe that there is an ethical/moral obligation for people to pay "their fair share" of the taxation burden. Those people would criticise DT as a parasite sponging off them.

 

 

networkn
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  #1641751 28-Sep-2016 12:36
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frankv:

 

networkn:

 

Having said that, if he is LEGALLY used methods in law to avoid paying taxes, then you can't penalize him for that, you can only criticise the law-makers.

 

 

Well, the legal system can't penalize him. But there's no compulsion to avoid tax, and many (most?) people believe that there is an ethical/moral obligation for people to pay "their fair share" of the taxation burden. Those people would criticise DT as a parasite sponging off them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So how much tax "should" he pay? A Million? Billion? Trillion? What's his "moral" obligation?  He's running a business. If he is illegally avoiding tax, or even using "questionable" methods, then throw his ass in prison, otherwise, not sure what you expect to happen?

 

 

 

He gets audited almost every year, rest assured the tax dept are looking for him to fall over, he will be meeting his obligations, or paying the price. 

 

I suspect the reason he doesn't want to show his returns is he may have been caught out by underpaying taxes, and have paid penalties etc, which will not look good. 

 

 

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  #1641753 28-Sep-2016 12:40
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frankv:

 

networkn:

 

Having said that, if he is LEGALLY used methods in law to avoid paying taxes, then you can't penalize him for that, you can only criticise the law-makers.

 

 

Well, the legal system can't penalize him. But there's no compulsion to avoid tax, and many (most?) people believe that there is an ethical/moral obligation for people to pay "their fair share" of the taxation burden. Those people would criticise DT as a parasite sponging off them.

 

 

 

 

He pays his fair share of tax, as deemed by the laws in his country

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  #1641755 28-Sep-2016 12:43
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networkn:

 

 

 

I suspect the reason he doesn't want to show his returns is he may have been caught out by underpaying taxes, and have paid penalties etc, which will not look good. 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I think the real reason is not that he has been underpaying, but that he has legally paid a tax bill that would make the average citizen incandescent with outrage. That is to say, not that he (for example) paid $100M but should have paid $150M, but more that despite being a billionaire, he legally was entitled to only pay $10K due to his financial structure, and did so.




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

networkn
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  #1641766 28-Sep-2016 12:49
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SaltyNZ:

 

networkn:

 

 

 

I suspect the reason he doesn't want to show his returns is he may have been caught out by underpaying taxes, and have paid penalties etc, which will not look good. 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I think the real reason is not that he has been underpaying, but that he has legally paid a tax bill that would make the average citizen incandescent with outrage. That is to say, not that he (for example) paid $100M but should have paid $150M, but more that despite being a billionaire, he legally was entitled to only pay $10K due to his financial structure, and did so.

 

 

Yes well that's the other possibility. I understand the rage but I understand it from his perspective too. 

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